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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
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I have finished watching this. It was perfect, an absolute delight, beautiful to look at, great characters, cute and charming and heartwarming and sad in equal measures.
I enjoyed every minute of every episode.
My only gripe is I haven't a clue what was going on!
Would someone explain it please!
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 03.17.2008, 06:16 PM |
   
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foreignfilmfreak
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 10.02.06
Location: Japan
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One of my friend's favourite series. I think she might own a DVD or so of it.
Want me to ask her? ^^ She's finished it. *got yelled at by a grumpy Rae in the summer when I interrupted her watching of the series*
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| 03.17.2008, 08:09 PM |
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Theowne
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Registration Date: 02.11.07
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Many people have a hard time understanding the plot, so it's not just you.
The central theme of the story is the search for "the girl in the sky". This is a message passed to Yukito from his mother. There are three basic story arcs. The first story arc takes place with Yukito travelling to the seaside town and meeting and residing with Misuzu. As this arc passes on, Yukito remembers his mothers words, that the girl with wings will die if she becomes too close to him and has her final dream. Misuzu is having these dreams and become worse and worse. Yukito attempts to save her, though he knows that by remaining with her he is making it worse. This section ends as Yukito disappears, and Misuzu subsequently feels better.
Then next story arc takes place a thousand years ago. In this arc we discover the curse, that the girl with wings is forever cursed to be reborn and die until her curse is broken. Kanna is the girl with wings. Her mother is killed. She falls to the same fate as present day Misuzu, she succumbs to the curse. She will never be able to have love/friendship with another without both of them dying,and she will forever be reincarnated. These are the curses.
The last Arc goes back to present day. The story is told from the point of the crow. Misuzu's condition starts to worsen. Her dad wants to take her back. In the final episode, Misuzu's mother must prevent Misuzu from suffering that same fate and without knowing, prevent her from returning to the sky (continuing the curse).
Misuzu is the reincarnation of Kanna, the girl with the wings, and suffers the same curse.
Yukito is the descendant of Ryuuya.
Yukito wished for Misuzu not to die. Thus, he disappears to allow this to happen. He sacrifices himself to save her and is reincarnated as the crow to watch over her. One would assume the curse which prevents her from experiencing friendship and love has been broken due to her happy memories she has accumulated with her mother & Yukito as well.
Some people believe the kids at the end are the final reincarnations of Yukito and the girl with wings, except with the curse now broken.
It is left ambiguous whether the curse of reincarnation has been lifted. Near the end we see Sora (the crow/Yukito) fly towards the sky. Towards the girl with the wings to lift the final curse?
These themes of souls and reincarnation are familiar to those culturally associated to these ideas (Japan, similar places in the far east inspired by Buddhism, India [the birthplace of Buddhism], etc). The important thing to remember that is often misunderstood is that reincarnation does not literally mean transferring into a new body. Even though Sora (crow) is the reincarnation of Yukito, it does not mean he retains any memories of his past incarnation.
Does that clear things up?
Post last edited by Theowne on 03.18.2008, 01:02 PM.
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| 03.17.2008, 08:41 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
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It helps a lot, thanks. However I had accepted all this and understood it, yet I had discarded big parts of it as being inconsistent or simply misleading due to other elements of the story that did not work alongside it. I saw the story but it confused me.
Let me highlight the story elements that puzzle me, in chronological order.
WARNING: HUGE, HUGE SPOILERS!
Summer Arc:
Kanna’s mother is locked in a cell within the cave on the holy mountain. Why? Is this merely a symbol that she is kept separate from others or is it a real prison? I know medieval Japan treated women abominably in many instances so her real imprisonment is believable if cruel. But if she is treated in such a cruel and unnecessary way due to the curse why is she simply not executed by her gaolers? I had trouble understanding the whole premise of locking away the cursed woman.
It struck me that once she is released she doesn’t seem human, this was due to her extreme strength to live for some time (hours?) after being pierced by two arrows but mainly by the shock wave she threw out and which appeared to kill many of the attacking soldiers (monks?).
Furthermore the last scene of the Summer Arc is a brief shot of Ryuuya dying in Kanna’s arms. In this admittedly brief shot he appears to be very old while she is depicted as she was in the holy mountain scenes, i.e. still young.
The combination of these elements led me to believe that Kanna and her mother had supernatural powers (duh, flight too!).
Dream Arc:
What is the purpose of the stuffed doll Yukito has? How is it animated? This power/magic is never explained as far as I could see. Or does it represent something? It has wings so I assume it’s a representation of the goal Yukito is seeking. Or perhaps the wings are irrelevant and designed to merely confuse the viewers like me. I don’t mind being played along with like this, but knowing one way or the other would be nice. We see the doll being made in the Summer Arc but I can’t recall by who, was it Kanna?
I became seriously side-tracked by the other female characters and sub-plots. What is the purpose of the Minagi-Michiru story? Michiru became a feather and later a child version of her became the young sister Minagi had never had, or rather she became a child her mother accepted? That family unit seemed to gain healing from this episode yet what’s it’s purpose in the story?
And who or what is the older Michiru? She clearly isn’t real, despite being corporeal so this puts the story firmly into the fantasy or folklore/mythology genre. Placing that against such a realistic modern town setting threw me.
Kano’s story, and her older sister, what function do they have in the main story? As to the scene with the white feather at the shrine, Yukito/Ryuuya, is he a healer as well as a person on a quest?
The Dream Arc has these three dysfunctional families in, all mothers/daughters or older/younger siblings. Are we supposed to draw comparisons with the Summer Arc here or is this a comment on modern society? I’m confused.
Potato the talking (pikopiko) dog. Kano and later Yukito can talk to it. Misuzu too if I recall. Any purpose to it? Or is it merely a fun and cute irrelevance?
Air Arc:
Sora the crow is my biggest problem after Kanno’s mother’s powers and imprisonment. It’s clearly meant to be Yukito in another form yet it cannot be a reincarnation of him (in the accepted sense) since he and it exist alive at the same time.
We see several scenes between Yukito and Misuzu duplicated, in the Air Arc, Sora is present, in the Dream Arc he’s absent. These two arcs cannot therefore be the same timeline and must be parallel worlds. It isn’t just Misuzu who sees and interacts with him, Haruka does too. Only Yukito does not. Perhaps rather than a reincarnation of him, it’s a projection of his spirit, we just are not shown it in the Dream Arc since that arc is told from Yukito’s perspective. Am I close?
The cutting of Misuzu’s hair by her mother is clearly a key moment, after that they sleep together as mother and daughter for (apparently) the first time ever and then begins the critical days of bonding necessary for Misuzu to complete her journey of discovering what being loved truly means. After the cutting of the hair though she appears to regress to a baby-like state, being unable to walk, being picky and rude over her food and not recognizing her own mother.
I take this whole section to represent the true innocent child growing up with a loving parent and experiencing love the way Misuzu should have her whole life, in essence these few days represent what her life should have been. I’m reminded of the same mother-daughter problems Minagi had.
At the end of these few days she dies but is happy and fulfilled knowing she is loved and the 1000 year curse is broken.
It struck me as odd how Yukito enters her life then leaves and yet it seems to be Haruka, her own mother who has been there all along but refusing to be close to her, who performs most of the necessary loving tasks that allows Misuzu to break the curse. That seemed such a weak point in the story. Was Yukito’s purpose as much to save Haruka’s life as Misuzu’s?
And yeah, the two children at the end are clearly significant whether they represent a new or alternative ‘clean’ form of Yukito/Ryuuya and Kanna/Misuzu or just innocent kids who have a chance to embark on a life of happiness and healthy ordinary love I don’t think is important.
Crow ascending into the sky/heaven at the end, yep, a pretty clear image of completion/success/fulfilment/moving on to a higher plane. I thought it interesting that this mirrors the very first scene at the bus stop where a crow flies up with a similar energy immediately that Yukito goes out of shot.
Well, that’s it I think. I’m guessing that if I was Japanese and knew Japanese folklore and mythology all of this would make a lot more sense.
Despite my critical comments none of these things detracts from the series, if anything they all add to it, increasing its mystery and charm.
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"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
Post last edited by Saddletank on 03.18.2008, 11:55 AM.
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| 03.18.2008, 11:44 AM |
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Theowne
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Registration Date: 02.11.07
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Okay, that's quite different then "I haven't a clue what's going on". I haven't watched the series since it was first airing so I may not be able to get that specific but I'll try with what I recall:
Kanna's mother isn't cursed. She isn't a human in a strict sense. She is a winged being as is her daughter Kanna. Why don't the monks kill Kanna's mother? The immediate conclusion is that there is a religious significance that is given to her. That's why the other group of monks who took them in were helping them. There is also the group who wishes to see Kanna dead as they are afraid she is a demon or some sort (if I remember correctly). Oh, and, I believe the lore for winged beings is that they are messengers sent to and from earth. Hence the curse of reincarnation.
There is absolutely zero relevance to the other girls except that this was adapted from a visual novel, a game, and there were multiple "potential" paths to take in order for it to be a game (IMO). Essentially they all may have been "the winged girl", so we delve into each of them, but they weren't, Misuzu is, the basic story is about Misuzu, and that's basically it. The other girls are virtually nonexistent in the movie adaptation. The main point of the story is between Misuzu, Yukito, and Haruko.
You might be able to say that the doll and Yukito's puppeteering is symbolic of his connection to Ryuuya, as Ryuuya manipulated something (I forget) during a fight scene. I don't remember exactly. But we get the impression that Ryuuya is the source of Yukito's ability.
I don't see Potato as anything important, perhaps he had a minor role in exposing Kano's personality. It seems to be a rule that there must be a cute animal sidekick.
The entire story is rooted in mythology and supernatural elements, not just Michiru's story. The story is about reincarnating spirits of winged beings, after all.
The show doesn't really follow a logical idea of reincarnations. Perhaps "manifestations" is a better word. The original game does make it quite clear though, that the crow is Yukito. It is the manifestation of Yukito's wish to continue to help her in any way.
You have to remember that there is no definition of rules of reincarnation. Whether you say reincarnation or manifestation or projection the idea is essentially the same as it applies to this anime.
Yukito could not have helped her as Yukito. The curse was taking it's effect and Misuzu was in more and more pain as she because closer and closer to him. She would have died had he remained. So he sacrificed him with the wish to continue helping her in some way, and thus the manifestation as a crow.
You basically have to approach the anime with more of "mystical" perspective, and even to this day nobody agrees on exactly what happens throughout.
Post last edited by Theowne on 03.18.2008, 02:40 PM.
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| 03.18.2008, 02:22 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
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Ah, thanks. The other girls stories being red herrings left over from the original game is a real let-down... bah. I feel like getting all grumpy over that! Humbug! What a pity, they almost feel like they have a part to play in the story.
Ah, that's really dented my day.
But yes, I see the mystical side of the story now and possible alternative meanings, somewhat like SEL.
I'm watching it through again for the second time now and as often happens with good quality anime, enjoying it more.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
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| 03.18.2008, 04:33 PM |
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Nausicaa_Cat
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Registration Date: 10.02.06
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As you know, im pretty sure i'd blathered on about it somewhere, I was pretty confused after watching this too. I found the wikipedia entry on it quite helpful though! Just a tip 
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| 03.18.2008, 04:34 PM |
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Theowne
Baron
Registration Date: 02.11.07
Location: Toronto, Canada
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The wikipedia page doesn't really go into much detail. When this show was airing there was a lot of deep discussion on an episode-by-episode basis occurring at a certain forum I visit, but after a forum crash all of it went down the drain. It's pretty sad....
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| 03.18.2008, 04:54 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
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Ah, now this is a shock, I didn't think you'd like it that much.
It all makes very interesting reading though, as theowne's interpretation is pretty much spot on what I'd have said.
I'll probably get a chance to talk with you at more length about air on the coming saturday group, I don't really want to go into it here as I fear I'd only be repeating whats already been said. 
And as for Wiki, it's not very usefull for air, as ultimately is just someones opinion. Try as they might wiki are always going to have subjective opinion in the entires and so not everyone is going to agree. The best thing to do is simply to watch it and decide for yourself, using wiki to perhaps fill in some narrative gaps.
I know elsewhere I've given a poor opinion of air, if that how it comes across it's only when I've compared it to Kanon. As a standalone peice of work it is excellent, although I do prefer the movie.
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| 03.22.2008, 12:25 PM |
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cassierS
Kodama
Registration Date: 02.17.08
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That show was wonderful, but so sad!
It makes you wonder what reality's like... but at the same time sends you into an alternate dimension....
It was so sad!!
To me, the meaning was clear enough... but that may be 'cause I think in weird ways... and I usually think too much.
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He paused. "I have noted that in matters of religion, logic, facts, and reason bear little weight when measured against emotion.
It does not matter what is, when people are convinced that the very opposite is what should be."
Storm Rising by Mercedes Lackey
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| 03.25.2008, 10:08 PM |
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Farren
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Registration Date: 07.18.07
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wow sounds like a treat
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pigeons funk the impossible
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| 04.21.2008, 01:02 AM |
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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.03.03
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VERY late reply, but to two questions that need answering:
Kanna's mother wasn't killed for one possible (and common) reason: she may be regarded as a demon, goddess, spirit or whatever, but you have to remember that the Japanese of old are a superstitious lot, and especially believe in curses and what not. KILLING a demon is fine, but considering that the peopl who imprisoned her believe her to be some kind of deity, killing her is forbidden for the fear of repercussion; that is to say, they fear Kanna's mother laying a curse upon them.
That's my opinion, anyway, but with strong basis from Japanese culture.
The doll Yukito controls is... harder to explain. But you can draw a somewhat parallel explanation from the anime "Key: The Metal idol".
I'm not sure if it's a common, uncommon or rare legend, but supposedly some priestesses control dolls without strings the same way Yukito does by means of spiritual posession. In both cases (Key and Air), both purposes was to provide happiness through entertainment.
Either way, Yukito's mother did tell him about his purpose in life, and thus the puppet show was one of the few ways Yukito was supposed to use to make life for the "girl in the sky" less miserable.
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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| 04.21.2008, 09:17 AM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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Thanks. I'm coming to understand that if there is ever anything in anime I just don't get it's because its a Japanese culture/history/social/folklore thing and I'm simply ignorant.
You're very handy to have around Roar. Do you think you could start a thread and simply write down everything you know - it would save me lots of time 
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Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
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| 04.21.2008, 07:33 PM |
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