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FlareNetworkC
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On Amazon, the Blu-Ray is only $19.99. A great deal, if you ask me.


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I still use DVDs and I need this and Marnie to close my Ghibli collection. I have Takahata's 'making of' DVD about this film which I've been saving until after I watch it. I can hear my debit card calling a siren song of corruption from my wallet...


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The DVD is only $14.99 on Amazon. For the longest time, I saved up for Ghibli to buy from Barnes and Noble, before discovering that Amazon's prices are about $10 lower.


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Yeah they're pretty good, I have the Collector's Edition for £21.99 ordered, comes in a digipack and 5 art cards.

Here's a pic, I can't seem to use the tags to upload a pic not sure why
http://i.imgur.com/Ua9xUeo.jpg?1


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I watched the film today on the big screen and it truly is unusual and beautiful. Some of the more conventional static scenes are very traditional but some of the scenes - the ones I like to call "extreme motion" - are breathtaking, not only in how real they seem (I often forgot I was watching animated drawings), but also in how, at the same time, they seem so deceptively simple.

There is an intense sense of 3D in some of the action scenes where movement does not take place from left to right or right to left across the screen as in most animation, but towards the viewer, which is exceptional when you first see it.

The film has a variety of animation styles. Most notably different between the 'calm' and 'extreme motion' scenes and the watercolour washed-out backgrounds are so minimalist at times to almost not exist, yet at the same time they seem so terribly real and perfect.

Its a work of art, there's no doubt of it.

There is a lot of humour in the story, especially among lesser characters (Kaguya's diminutive servant woman (girl?) steals the show; she's hilarious) and that helps because without the humour the story would be pretty dry and somewhat depressing.

On the whole however I was somewhat confused by the meaning of what I was seeing. We (my daughter and I) concluded over dinner afterwards that it was probably an allegory for life, the stages one goes through (innocent childhood, growth and the sometimes stark realities of adulthood) but Takahata seems to have taken the base folk tale and made it again into a rich story about the earth, the environment and nature.

I'd like to hear others thoughts on what they took away from the film as regards to meaning.


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Post last edited by Saddletank on 07.26.2016, 06:50 PM.

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makc
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quote:
what they took away from the film as regards to meaning
there is this note, saying the original story is long time lost, so we can't possibly know the true meaning of the story.

taking the story and its ghibli adaptation at the face value, I have no idea what to take from it, except that their suggestion that living simple life would make her happier than living the life of the princess.

for your "an allegory for life, the stages one goes through", I would not agree, as you could interpret any story whatsoever like this, that has any kind of character development.


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I was referring to Takahata's version, not the original. I wanted to get to understand better what I was watching, not the long-ago folk tale.

I find your last comment puzzling. You suggest that any story that contains character development can be an allegorical picture of life. How can this be the case?

Almost every story other than pure action stories have character development, maybe 90% of stories do. Yet very few are allegories of life. I can't think of a single work by Studio Ghibli other than Nausicaa which suggests a 'life story', yet all of them have character development.

Your comment is so easily refuted that I can only assume you meant something else.

Kaguya Hime on the other hand has very clear depictions of birth, childhood, young adulthood (when she is playfully pretending to study at the 'palace'), older adulthood and death.


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If it's the message of the film we're after... it seems nothing more complex than 'live authentically'. She came back to earth seeking happiness, but the happiness her adopted father tried to buy her with gold was no such thing. Now I think of it, was he trying to please her or the gods? No, he did try his best for her, I think. But of course was misguided, not seeing the value in a life close to nature.

You know, the ending didn't do much for me. That is, it left me not feeling very much besides some sadness. Parts in the middle of the film were more poignant. Overall, the emotional impact was lighter than I'd been expecting. My dad and I watched Wolf Children the next day and between the two, I preferred Wolf Children. As a story, that is. The art of Kaguya was absolutely wonderful; it's a visual masterpiece, I think.


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makc
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
I was referring to Takahata's version, not the original. I wanted to get to understand better what I was watching, not the long-ago folk tale.


As I wrote, I saw nothing more than "their suggestion that living simple life would make her happier than living the life of the princess".

Moreover, I don't know why people insist that there must be some deep hidden meaning to every piece of art, it's like just a story they chose to tell when it was time to make some money again. They could equally choose something else entirely. Like that time when Miyazaki wanted to do Ponyo II but did The Wind Rises instead. No secret message here, what you see is what you get.

edit: to elaborate, I give you this example. You probably know this world famous painting, it is well-known all over the world thanks to enormous discussion surrounding its "meaning". You can see author pretentious comments under "perception" section in the wiki article did help to create the idea that that painiting does, indeed, have any meaning on top of being black square. The truth behind this painiting is, however, that it was just another painting that did not come out quite right, so the author painted it over, and even gave it humorous title "negro battle in the dark cave", alluding to this piece by another author. So, in reality, there was no intended meaning but interpretations created by people looking at the piece.

quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
I find your last comment puzzling. You suggest that any story that contains character development can be an allegorical picture of life. How can this be the case?

Almost every story other than pure action stories have character development, maybe 90% of stories do. Yet very few are allegories of life. I can't think of a single work by Studio Ghibli other than Nausicaa which suggests a 'life story', yet all of them have character development.
Well perhaps I misunderstand what you mean by "allegorical picture of life", but what I mean is, any character that changes through the movie can be compared to, in your words, "the stages one goes through (innocent childhood, growth and the sometimes stark realities of adulthood)", because this development is what drives the changes between these stages. Of course, if you want each stage to be somehow "depicted" in the movie, this will not always be the case, and it does not have to.


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It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so loving what - Stephen Fry.

Post last edited by makc on 07.28.2016, 06:08 AM.

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Saddletank
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I am not insisting there must be deep hidden meanings, just *any* meaning, or message. I am sure Takahata does not expend this much love and devotion and effort on something he does not intend to use to pass on something.

I think Kaz summed it up well.

quote:
Like that time when Miyazaki wanted to do Ponyo II but did The Wind Rises instead. No secret message here, what you see is what you get.
What are you talking about? That's a man's personal choice of what work he prefers to undertake next. Its irrelevant in this discussion.

I still don't understand your dismissive attitude, you give the impression that you enjoy not finding anything of value in stories. *shrug*


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Post last edited by Saddletank on 07.29.2016, 04:01 AM.

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makc
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
you give the impression that you enjoy not finding anything of value in stories. *shrug*


I guess you got me, I guess I value the experience more than the message they may be trying to pass. Like my wife said, these animes are like impressionist paintings, only animated. Juicy colors alone outweight the story in them ) Well, does not really apply to Kaguya, as it has colors all washed out - but then I did not enjoy it that much as, for example, Ponyo (I hope we can all agree that Ponyo is just the movie for little kids with no message whatsoever? Then again, probably not, probably you see something there too).


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It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so loving what - Stephen Fry.

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I think it's really devaluing if not insulting to these films to imply that they're just pretty to look at. They're so much more than that. It's... interesting if a bit strange that you can't seem to perceive any subtext whatsoever, and don't want to. I'm with Saddles on that.


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Saddletank
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quote:
Originally posted by makc ...the experience more than the message they may be trying to pass.
Wanting to understand any message is also part of the experience. If all you want is colour and pretty sights one may as well watch an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie.

Anime at the level of the work Studio Ghibli produces is stuffed full of meaning and messages. Its almost impossible to ignore that. One is led to wonder why people watch Ghibli's movies if something like Naruto would be equally satisfying, from a visual standpoint.

Apart from "Marnie" which I intend to watch soon, Ponyo is the only Ghibli work I haven't seen and I have avoided it for the very reason you give. Its aimed at children.

quote:
Originally posted by makc I hope we can all agree that Ponyo is just the movie for little kids with no message whatsoever? Then again, probably not, probably you see something there too.

Now you are simply being rude. What's the matter with you? Can't you engage in a discussion without sinking to that level? As soon as someone descends to insults they lose all credibility, as do their arguments.


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Post last edited by Saddletank on 07.29.2016, 04:08 AM.

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makc
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
If all you want is colour and pretty sights one may as well watch an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie.

Indeed, and I enjoy them too, Total Recall was great, Terminator II was awesome, 6th Day was totally my cup of tea. Even Kindergarden Cop, I loved it )

quote:
Anime at the level of the work Studio Ghibli produces is stuffed full of meaning and messages. Its almost impossible to ignore that.

Ha ha, watch me )
quote:
One is led to wonder why people watch Ghibli's movies if something like Naruto would be equally satisfying, from a visual standpoint.

Mostly because Naruto is series, and with Ghibli you get quality stuff that has definite ending in under 2 hours.

quote:
Apart from "Marnie" which I intend to watch soon,

Well, Marnie has way more "meaning" for people like you than Kaguya, you're in for a treat.

quote:
Ponyo is the only Ghibli work I haven't seen and I have avoided it for the very reason you give. Its aimed at children.

I'm 35 atm, and Ponyo is *the* most enjoyable Ghibli piece, for that same reason. It's like pure, 100% joy from from start to finish. You're missing out.

quote:
Now you are simply being rude. What's the matter with you?

Well, it's 2016 and you can't say your name without offending anyone. Would it help if I say that was not my intention? I just think you're the kind of people who will find the meaning where there is no any, judging by your comments so far. In the Ponyo, you would say, there is "eco" message that the nature will destroy and replace us with new new species, if we do not keep the water clean, etc. Which I will then say is all secondary to what the movie is about.


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It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so loving what - Stephen Fry.

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One thing I've learned in the years that I've been a member of the Tavern is that we are all different... Being so, we have disagreements and even arguments with one another at times, but it is generally kept civil and we are all still friends. Here's hoping that this outlook continues. I have the title 'the old guy' because I appear to be the oldest member in age at 69. This does not make me the wisest or even wiser than anyone else, but I have seen a good deal more of life and try to put those learning's to good use.

BTW, makc, if it hasn't been done yet, WELCOME to the Tavern...


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Even on a purely visual level, Ghibli art and animation far outclasses that of most anime. I have bought artbooks for that very reason, which of course, do not communicate story at all and purely reflect the visual appeal.

Of course, the story, characters, and underlying messages are very important to me as well. I don't think there really has to be a single answer - you can enjoy the visuals, the story - or both.

It certainly seems strange to criticize others for finding deeper meaning in these films, though. Anyone who'se read "Starting point" (writings by Hayao Miyazaki) would see how much thought is put into these films. Criticizing a deeper meaning is criticizing the creator in this regard.

For Ponyo, for example, it's fairly accurate that it's trying to paint an "eco" message, this is extremely consistent across Miyazaki films and is something he talks about a lot. Whether it's primary or secondary to what the film is about - matter of opinion.

Post last edited by Theowne on 07.30.2016, 08:42 PM.

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I think you are misunderstanding something makc

Studio Ghibli is not like any other film studio in the world. They found it when they had something to say, and i think many of it turned into a phenomena, they pioneered many new movements. Their films are not only for visuals. Ofcourse visuals are important but to them the message is even more important. I think studio ghibli movies had a great impact on many people's life.

I hope you will be able to enjoy them and understand them. But those are your decision to take.

Finding hidden meaning is like tresure hunting its fun and educative. And often it is true.

If you think meaning is so unimportant then why people talk about Terminator when they talk about advanced ai (current progress is quietly moving to that point fast). Most good movies or art tries to give an picture of a world that may or may not be true. But that picture is indeed a message. If you fail to see that i can just say you are missing out a lot. One example is the star child sequence in Space Odessy. I mean what will you do then, if you are like most people you will definitely try to find a link. Although what we might think may be wrong but great directors surely definitely 100% tries to give some food for thought for the people. Thats the message. I do not want to argue[so dont reply to it, please] And i accept your point of view too.


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its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
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Post last edited by saviour2012 on 07.30.2016, 02:09 PM.

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makc
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@husky51 thanks,

quote:
Originally posted by husky51
I appear to be the oldest member in age at 69. This does not make me the wisest or even wiser than anyone else, but I have seen a good deal more of life

Right, that's like two my entire lives, I can't begin to imagine how I would feel about my current self or someone like that if I make it to that age. Although, I can probably compare it with my feelings towards teens now - they got so many things wrong, yet demonstrate enormous self-confidence not really backed up by anything... and this thing does not change with age, does it?

You know, here on the internet we are given a chance to think the things you're going to say through carefully, let them cool off maybe, or sharpen the wordings to hit the target better, unlike the real life where you have seconds to think before you have to say something. Yet I almost never use this chance - and for that I am sorry. Perhaps this is because there are too many people on the internet to care.

quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
Most good movies or art tries to give an picture of a world that may or may not be true. But that picture is indeed a message. If you fail to see that i can just say you are missing out a lot.

But maybe it's you who fail to see that the meaning is actually in your head rather than in the piece of art Ah but you never think it's you, do you.

That said, it may be true that ghibli guys trying hard to place secret messages in their movies beyond what's there on the screen in plain sight. Like that child scene in space odyssey indeed, perhaps Kubrick thought of it like some kind of game where he releases the movie and then laughs his ass off as the viewers try to decypher it. But imho, if the artist can't be bothered to express himself clearly, why should I be bothered and waste my time trying to guess what ever they were trying to say. I would rather spend my time enjoying another movie.


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It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so loving what - Stephen Fry.

Post last edited by makc on 07.30.2016, 08:07 PM.

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quote:
Originally posted by makc
quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
Most good movies or art tries to give an picture of a world that may or may not be true. But that picture is indeed a message. If you fail to see that i can just say you are missing out a lot.

But maybe it's you who fail to see that the meaning is actually in your head rather than in the piece of art Ah but you never think it's you, do you.

That said, it may be true that ghibli guys trying hard to place secret messages in their movies beyond what's there on the screen in plain sight. Like that child scene in space odyssey indeed, perhaps Kubrick thought of it like some kind of game where he releases the movie and then laughs his ass off as the viewers try to decypher it. But imho, if the artist can't be bothered to express himself clearly, why should I be bothered and waste my time trying to guess what ever they were trying to say. I would rather spend my time enjoying another movie.



I guess you are completely missing out the point that why in fact art was invented. Remember that old prehistoric times when the cave men drew their fight with animals. They did it to express themselves to others. Its not just some random thing because all cavemen already knew about it. Why bother in such a uncivilized society. The reason for art is to communicate, Ofcourse you can enjoy another movie when another person can find his inspiration for his latest scientific discovery or political movement or business idea or new art itself. I think the latter ones are more productive , don't you?


edit: even if kubrick laughs his off, thats still a message, he is verifying that people will go to great lengths to find meaning. which is kind of true.

edit 2: about getting seconds to think about something, i dont think you are right. In small talk such may be true, but when the topic is serious and is a discussion you will see people take long pauses to answer. If you attend talks of famous people or watch interviews or even discuss something interesting and difficult with your friends you will see that pattern. However in my experience i have seen some people try to find an answer too fast or easy answers of hard questions. Which is one of the key reasons why our political system of the world does not work well. We at onlineghibli forum are trying not to be such people. Its because such kind of thinking often leads to disaster. We try to base our ideas on facts(verifiable). And i think baseless self-confidence is utterly annoying.


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Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

Post last edited by saviour2012 on 07.31.2016, 09:27 AM.

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I saw Kaguya when it was released in theaters in the US in fall 2014. I saw it literally three times in theaters...that's a record for me. The movie was that amazing. It's literally my new favorite movie of all time. I think it really is a pity that people on this board don't seem to appreciate it that much.

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