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Originally posted by SpiritedSen
Feel free to ask me anything, I can't remember the last time I had so much fun! I don't know anyone who gives a toss about Batman, so it's SO nice to be able to chat, well...write, about him!!!

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These criminals sound interesting, so can I ask a few questions about them??

These henchmen ~ are they just unimportant characters who hang around and get beaten up by batman? Or do they play important roles? it's probably a bit of both, but I've always been intrigued by the henchmen...

The Joker... You seem to like him loads ~ is just because of his nose, or is there something else? You've told me a bit about him, can you tell me more? That writing from the walls of Arkham was... well... captivating! He has so many weird ideas... sometimes I thought he was fighting for good "honesty to the whitehouse" but then obviously he wants the opposite "fill the streets with murder and rape"... then again, is he seeing an alternate side to society, "paint filthy words on our children's heads"? Where's he coming from?

Please! Tell me more about this Joker!!

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Thanks to mpw3d who made ths amazing sig! The avatar was made by Sarah, from www.digik.net

Sorry about the delay Phyrra, this one took some time!!

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Originally posted by Phyrra
These henchmen ~ are they just unimportant characters who hang around and get beaten up by batman?

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Basically, yes!! We rarely know their names, and they are just considered as hired heavies, who will work for whoever pays them, and have no affiliations with anyone.

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Originally posted by Phyrra
Please! Tell me more about this Joker!!

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Yay, Mr.J (that’s what Harley calls him!)
The Joker is sometimes called The Clown Prince Of Crime, (as I’m sure you’ve seen at the bottom of my sig!), and also the Ace Of Knaves, and the Harlequin Of Hate! Although originally represented in the 40’s and 50’s as a mischievous, but harmless, prankster and thief, (although in the first few comics he was in, he was a mass-murderer with a penchant for jewels), he is now seen as, and I will use a quote that I’ve seen “He is Charles Manson cursed with a clown’s grinning face and a grotesque sense of showmanship”! As I’ve said before, Joker is Batman’s nemesis…as Batman strives for order, so The Joker strives for chaos. Even the other criminals don’t trust him because of his insanity, and he has been excluded from a few groups that were assembled (I mentioned them in my last post).
The Joker is truly psychotic, and has killed men, women, children, and his own henchmen…he is said to have once gassed an entire kindergarten, and in the comic ‘Devil’s Advocate’, it states that The Joker has killed around 2000 people! The Joker also shot and crippled Barbara Gordon (the first Batgirl) and killed Jason Todd (the second Robin) by beating him to death with a crow-bar!! However, every time he’s carted back to Arkham, he is spared the death penalty by reason of insanity. Then he escapes, again! It has been said that The Joker allows himself to be captured, so he can ‘relax and unwind’ at Arkham before his next job!

It can be said that The Joker needs Batman, for what is a criminal who doesn’t have an enemy? In the Batman Beyond movie, ‘Return Of The Joker’, Terry McGinnis (the new Batman under tuteledge by an aging Bruce Wayne) says to The Joker that he only keeps coming back because he never got a laugh out of the real Batman. More conclusive proof for this comes from ‘Going Sane’, a story featured in ‘Legends Of The Dark Knight’. In it, Joker, believing he has finally killed Batman, reverts to sanity, has plastic surgery to look normal, takes the name Joseph Kerr (Joe Kerr!), and has a fling with a neighbour! However, on discovering Batman was still alive, he again went insane, mutilated himself so he’d look like the old Joker again, and continued to hunt down Batman! Joker has had opportunities to unmask Batman, but has not taken them, he wants to destroy him in a manner befitting his ‘criminal genius’. In the ‘Return Of The Joker’ film (as above), he tortured Robin to find out Batman’s identity, and was wholly dissapointed when he found out, saying that he now thinks of Batman as nothing more than “a little boy in a playsuit crying for mommy and daddy”.

Background:
The Joker was modelled on a character from a silent movie called The Man Who Laughs, which was based on a Victor Hugo novel. (see pic from the movie below)

The first telling of The Joker’s origins came in 1951, where he was originally a criminal called The Red Hood. During a fight with Batman, he leaps into a vat of chemicals to escape persuit. The chemicals turn his skin white, his hair green, and his mouth into that huge red grin.
This was slightly changed in The Killing Joke in 1988 (1 of my fave comics!). An engineer who quit his job at a chemicals factory to become a stand-up comic, a job which he fails miserably at. With no money, and a pregnant wife, he agrees to show 2 criminals the way into his old workplace, the factory (which is next door to a toy factory, making playing cards, explaining The Joker reference). His wife dies in a household accident while the heist is being planned, and The Joker tries to pull out, but the criminals won’t let him. They force him to wear the mask of a known criminal, The Red Hood, so as to take the heat off them if they are captured. They bump into security staff almost immediately, and in a gunfight, the criminals are killed. The Joker then comes face to face with Batman, who has been investigating the disturbance, and in his panic, he falls into a vat of toxic chemicals, and is swept through a pipe leading to outside, a pipe joined to the factory next door! The joint terror of his new appearance and the death of his wife, all on the same day, turn him insane, and The Joker is born!
In another story in the Batman Gotham Nights series (2004), the story is pretty similar, except for the fact that the criminals murdered his wife, and in this story, The Joker’s first name is given as Jack. However, nobody REALLY knows what his name is, as is this is such a modern comic, I don’t really take it to heart. In another short story, The Joker’s real surname is said to be Napier, hence in Batman (the Tim Burton movie), Joker’s name is Jack Napier, although I think that’s all bollocks!! The fact that we don't know his name, and that even he doesn't remember what it was (or who he was in the past, see below), adds to the notion of his complete departure and detachment from society, for our names and our backgrounds are a major contribution to how we define ourselves. It has also been said, but only in the cartoons and movies, that he's a former hit man for the Mafia. Another story is that The Joker was born insane, with an insane father. He killed small animals (one of the three things that are common in all kids who become serial killers) and collected their bones, and in one chilling episode, he listens at the wall of his bedroom, smiling, as he listens to his father savagely beating his mother in the next room. He then murders a local neighbourhood boy who finds his makeshift animal graveyard. And yet another version shows The Joker as a young boy who murders his alcoholic and abusive father, and spend many years in an asylum because of it. But, as Joker says himself in The Killing Joke, “I'm not exactly sure what happened. Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another...If I’m going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!” He is unlike other Batman villains, most of which have only one definitive background, whereas he has many, and none are definitive (I personally take The Killing Joke scenario as 'true'). The fact that so many theories have arisen around the 'conception' of The Joker proves his place in people's mind as the most important figure in Batman, aside from Batman himself.

There are many theories about The Joker’s mental state. It has been said that he is totally sane, and just fakes insanity to stay out of jail. He is, instead, a savage sadist who uses his hideous appearance to further terrify his victims. However, as this theory was said by Harleen Quinlan, who later fell in love with The Joker and became Harley Quinn, it somehow loses its gravitas!! It’s also said that The Joker suffers from ‘super-sanity’, a form of ultra-sensory perception. The Joker has no real personality, and is scared of nothing (when The Scarecrow squirts Joker with his fear toxin, it has absolutely no effect). This kind of answers your question of where The Joker's coming from...we just don't know what he believes, or if he really feels anything at all!

The Joker doesn’t really have special powers, although he is skilled in the fields of chemistry, genetics, computer technology, and is somewhat of a mad genius. He uses many comic-themed weapons such as his ninja star style playing cards, his lapel flower spewing acid, and lethally electric joy buzzers. He is, however, no slouch when it comes to hand-to-hand combat, and it has been said that, due to his insanity, that he is capable of super-human strength when the need arises. However, there is no apparent reason why The Joker cheats death every time, and that being shot, blown up, and at one point actually killed in the electric chair (!) apparently have no adverse effects (I guess they modelled Kenny from South Park on him!). I personally think that because The Joker believes himself to be unstoppable, he is (mind over matter!) Also, maybe he simply won’t allow himself to die until he gets Batman!

Well, I think that's about it, unless I want to spend the next five years writing the synopsis for every comic, movie, and comic that he's in!!
But why do I love him? I'm not really sure! Why am I so obsessed with an evil, abusive, murdering psychopath? Maybe because he embraces what he is, and only cares about himself (I have a bit of a superiority complex myself!) He sees how twisted the world is,... and he just laughs...I guess I admire that! I suppose he sees the comedy in everything! If he hates someone, usually for arbitrary reasons, or just gets vaguely annoyed by something or someone, he gets rid of them...I'm sure we can all relate to that way of thinking, I know I certainly do!! He's a funny, disarmingly charming (when he wants to be) guy, who's one hell of a snappy dresser! As I said before, I'm interested in criminal psychology, as as he's the most twisted villain, and certainly the most prolofic murderer in comic book history, I was drawn to him (please excuse the comic book/drawn pun!!) I admire his single mindedness, as much as I admire Batman's! As I've also said before, I love the darker things in life, and you can't get much darker then The Joker! He is evil and sadistic and completely insane, and I love him for it!! And check out that nose!!

For most girls, the thing that first attracts them to a guy is his eyes...for me, it's their noses, and I have no idea why!!

I love you Mr.J!!!

So, phyrra,...anything else? If you're getting bored of all this, just let me know!! Writing this thread has re-invigorated my love of Batman, and I've been re-watching and re-reading all things Batman that I own!! It just makes me so damn happy!! So if there's anything else you want to know, feel free to ask!!

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Post last edited by SpiritedSen on 07.11.2006, 01:15 PM.

That must have taken you hours and hours to write!! it was really interesting ~ no way am I getting bored of this ...

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He is unlike other Batman villains, most of which have only one definitive background, whereas he has many, and none are definitive (I personally take The Killing Joke scenario as 'true')

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So, since 1651, subsequent comics retold the origins of the Joker, and changed them slightly. If that's so, is the 2004 story generally accepted as the most likely 'correct' background to the Joker? Or do fans choose which background they believe is correct; like you have, and accept that we don't which is truely correct?

Is the multitude of slightly different stories a reflection of the Joker himself wanting various histories?

You've given such a detailed character analysis, there really isn't anything I can ask about him... Does he murder without reason, or does he aim for something? Does he remove people in order to access some kind of goal? Apart from some insane self-satisfaction and mass chaos...

When you say that the joker goes to Arkham to 'unwind' does batman take him into the police and in turn, the police send him to Arkham? Or does the joker escape batman and goes to Arkham out of free will? Would batman kill the Joker of he managed to 'detain' him?

Then again, does batman make things easier for the police, and leave the police to 'catch' the joker, who is then sent to Arkham?

Sorry, these aren't really clear questions, and you've more or less answered them previously... thanks again for writing such amazing response ~ I really enjoy reading all of it, and appreciate the collosal time it must have taken to write

Oh, and while I was loking back over your other answers, I noticed 'two-face' ~ who reminded me of 'no-face'... are the two similar?? Or am I just talking a load of rubbish now...

Do the baddies ever fight each other? you mentioned how the Joker killed all those henchmen ~ but are there rivalries between fellow crimianls that run as deep as those with batman?

Hm.... I've asked far too much now, hope you don't mind

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Thanks to mpw3d who made ths amazing sig! The avatar was made by Sarah, from www.digik.net

Spiritedsen, I have just rewatched Batman Begins and remembered your comment that Bruce Wayne does not understand what Lucius Fox is explaining to him. My interpretation of this is that he has to maintain his Playboy life style and appear unintelligent as later on whilst in the Batman outfit he does explain things to Commish Gordon and Ms Dawes. Yes there is a lot of poetic licence that has gone into the film however at no point are they implying that either Batman or Bruce Wayne is unintelligent - Just that he needs to put up a mascerade to protect his identity.

Post last edited by Andy Dainty on 07.14.2006, 06:12 AM.

Hey Phyrra dude!! Sorry this answer has taken sooo long, it's so hot that I can't sit at my computer for more than five minutes!! Anyway, it may be delayed, but I hope this answers your questions!!

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Originally posted by Phyrra
So, since 1651, subsequent comics retold the origins of the Joker, and changed them slightly. If that's so, is the 2004 story generally accepted as the most likely 'correct' background to the Joker? Or do fans choose which background they believe is correct; like you have, and accept that we don't which is truely correct?

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I suppose that background that is most factual would be the one that was written in 1951, simply because it’s the earliest, that says that The Joker was a criminal called the Red Hood, who got caught by Batman while doing a robbery, and fell into a vat of chemicals trying to escape. However, this just isn’t enough to explain the evolution of The Joker’s insanity, so the fans just choose which one to believe, but the version from The Killing Joke (198 seems to be the most popular! I think that all the versions are plausible though…the one where he’s a twisted little boy who murders little animals works really well I think (that’s my second favourite background!)

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Originally posted by Phyrra
Is the multitude of slightly different stories a reflection of the Joker himself wanting various histories?

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Nice idea dude! Maybe that’s how some of the writers felt when they put their own version of The Joker’s history out into the world…each version slightly diluting the last, until they all become blurred! But no, there’s no grand plan to make the Joker stories mirror The Joker himself!

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Originally posted by Phyrra
Does he murder without reason, or does he aim for something? Does he remove people in order to access some kind of goal?

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The Joker is a psycho…he kills indiscriminately, men, women, children. Therefore, to kill, be it for gain or enjoyment, is second nature to him. He enjoys to torture and humiliate his victims, and as I said, he is the most prolific murderer in comic book history! He obviously kills during the jobs he pulls (for money, gems, weapons, new technologies…usual super villain stuff!), but not only the men he robs, but staff, hostages, passers-by, anyone near enough! Essentially, he’s not a guy you’d like to meet down a dark alley!! He is a sadistic, psychotic, insane, maniac who delights in the slaughter of others...and that's why we love him!!

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Originally posted by Phyrra
When you say that the joker goes to Arkham to 'unwind' does batman take him into the police and in turn, the police send him to Arkham? Or does the joker escape batman and goes to Arkham out of free will? Would batman kill the Joker of he managed to 'detain' him?
Then again, does batman make things easier for the police, and leave the police to 'catch' the joker, who is then sent to Arkham?

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Batman always captures The Joker, and either hands him over to the police, or takes him to Arkham himself…unless of course you think The Joker is dead…that always means he got away! Or Batman will capture The Joker and leave him hanging up somewhere, ready and waiting for the cops when they arrive! Would Batman kill The Joker? Interesting question! Ultimately…no. The cornerstone of what makes Batman different to the villains he captures is his refusal to kill. Now, it must be said that Batman is not always entirely fair, as we saw in Batman Begins in his final encounter with Ra’s Al Ghul, “I’m not going to kill you…but that doesn’t mean I have to save you!” However, the instances of Batman being this 'cruel' do happen with villains like The Joker and Ra’s who both seem to be immortal. Because of this, Batman may be leaving them to die, but he knows that they won't, therefore never breaking his code of ethics. Batman has wanted to kill Joker, disgusted by the atrocities the madman has carried out, but as I said, if Batman killed The Joker, then he would become that which he despises most. Batman’s humanity is what’s kept him sane through all those years of nightly vengeance…without it, he would lose himself entirely.

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Originally posted by Phyrra Oh, and while I was loking back over your other answers, I noticed 'two-face' ~ who reminded me of 'no-face'... are the two similar?? Or am I just talking a load of rubbish now...

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Two-Face is absolutely nothing like No-Face! I’ll give you a brief history…Harvey Dent was the District Attourney of Gotham City, and a close friend of Bruce Wayne’s. However, during a court case against Mafia don, Boss Moroni, in which Dent was prosecuting council, Moroni threw vitriol in Harvey’s face, horribly scaring his left hand and left side of his face. Realising he is disfigured, Dent grabs a silver dollar (coin) from Maroni, scars one side of it, and flips it to decide if he’ll be good or bad in certain situations! This coins becomes Harvey’s only way to make his decisions, and Batman has foiled him many times by throwing a handful of coins at Two-Face while he’s flipping his! He suffers from multiple personality disorder…originally, this was said to be caused by his accident, but later comic books, and Batman The Animated Series, have said that Harvey already had the disorder since he was a child, where he was bullied and/or abused, and the conflict within himself forced him into two beings…Harvey, the nice guy, and Big Bad Harv, the nasty bastard! I said it’d be brief!! I know that if you want to know more, you’ll ask!!

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Originally posted by Phyrra Do the baddies ever fight each other? you mentioned how the Joker killed all those henchmen ~ but are there rivalries between fellow crimianls that run as deep as those with batman?

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The villains don’t fight each other. Surprisingly, very few of their plans seem to overlap, which considering how many villains there are is quite an achievement!! But seriously, the villains all have their own agendas, and really have no time for in-fighting, as essentially they’re all on the same side…the dark side!! They do have “scuffles” occasionally, (bearing in mind that a scuffle between psycho’s can be pretty heavy!!) but that seems to be mainly when they’re working with The Joker!! There are no rivalries between the villains, they are all such egomaniacs that I’m sure they barely notice anyone!

Well, I hope that was informative!! Yet again, it's been an honour and a pleasure writing for you (even if it was a bit warm!! *sweaty!!*)
You know what? I actually feel guilty because I haven't written as much as usual!! Isn't that weird??!! So if there's anything else I can help you with, you know where I am. Here's a short list of some Batman villains...maybe you'll remember one and want to know more about them;
(I can't remember what one's we've talked about, so I'll just write all the major ones!!)
The Joker, Scarecrow, The Penguin, Two-Face, Mr.Freeze, Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, The Riddler, Bane, The Mad Hatter, Clay Face, Killer Croc, Ra's Al Ghul, Man-Bat, Scarface...there are others, but these one's are the main ones that you'd know!

Or if you're feeling full of heroism and niceness, there's Batman, Alfred Pennyworth, BatGirl, Robin (all 3 of them), BatWoman, Night Wing and Commissioner Gordon to chat about!!

Laters dude!

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Post last edited by SpiritedSen on 07.19.2006, 08:45 PM.

Like I say every time I read one of these fantastic replies, Thank You!!

Anyway, I did have a I little question after hearing about 'batwoman' and 'batgirl'. With other superheros there seems to be some sort of girl who the superhero is infatuated with. Is that the case with batman, or is he different?

I like the entire idea of how batman knows that these immortal villains won't die, so he's not killing them by not saving them, very clever!

There are so many great batman ideas, like Two-face flipping coins to make decisions... there's nothing like that in stuff like superman and spiderman now, is there!?

__________________

Thanks to mpw3d who made ths amazing sig! The avatar was made by Sarah, from www.digik.net

Dude, I am SOOO sorry that this post has taken so long!!*blushes with shame and embarrassment*

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Originally posted by Phyrra
Anyway, I did have a I little question after hearing about 'batwoman' and 'batgirl'. With other superheros there seems to be some sort of girl who the superhero is infatuated with. Is that the case with batman, or is he different?

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I think I'll give you a Batwoman/girl history lesson while answering this question!

Batwoman, otherwise known as Kathy Kane, hasn't been in the comic books for years, and was always a minor character. Featuring in the comic books from 1956-64, Kathy was originally drawn to resemble Bob Kane's wife, and the character was eventually scrapped for being too silly in 1964, by the new editor. While Batman has his utiltiy belt, she carried a utilty purse!! In 1961, Batwoman was joned by her niece Bat-girl, otherwise known as Bette Kane. Kathy and Bette are romantically interested in Batman and Robin, respectively. Robin seems to return Bat-Girl's affections, but Batman remains aloof. Batwoman is eventually murdered by the League Of Assassins.

Now, more about Bat-girl!

Batwoman and Bat-girl were put in the comics to be love interests, just as much as they were to be crime fighters! Elizabeth 'Bette' Kane even wore a red and green costume, rather than the usual blue/black, just to flatter Robin! This Bat-girl was also scrapped for being too silly in '64.

The second, and most famous, Bat-girl was Barbara Gordon, librarian and daughter to Commissioner Gordon. This Bat-girl was a collaboration between D.C and the Batman television series (the t.v series had famously, and accidentally, made people think that Batman and Robin were gay lovers, and they seriously wanted to dispell that myth!), and Babs, as her friends called her, began in both in 1967. While going to a masquerade ball dressed as a female Batman, Barbara stops a kidnap attempt on none other than Bruce Wayne...needless to say, he was impressed, and she joined the Batman family! Barbara had to give up being Bat-girl when she was crippled by The Joker in the comic book, 'The Killing Joke', but still fights crime from her wheelchair, under the name of Oracle. Robin fancied Barbara, but she saw him as a friend. However, in Batman And Robin:The Animated Series, we see Bat-girl as a blonde college student, who is infatuated with Batman...needless to say, these feeling are not recipricated! And in the Batman:The Animated Series film 'Batman & Mr.Freeze:SubZero', she is a red head who is dating Robin! Essentially...the jury's out on that one!
The third Bat-girl was Helena Bertellini, who was The Huntress, which is a name used by several characters in the D.C. universe! Helana, daughter of one of the biggest mafia bosses in Gotham, became The Huntress after she watched the mob-arranged execution of her whole family at a wedding. Batman never really trusted her, as he thought she was too unpredictable, but Robin (Tim Drake) feels otherwise, and the two work together a lot. Helena does go on to have a brief affair with Nightwing (Dick Grayson, the original Robin), but Helena confesses that she just seduced him because she thought it might help her get into 'the boy's club' of Batman's world.

The last Bat-girl is Cassandra Cain, of partly Asian descent. Her father, assassin David Cain, conceived her and trained her to be the ultimate fighting machine, so that she could be the perfect bodyguard for Ra's Al Ghul (David was a member of the League Of Assassins). Part of this training was that she was not taught to speak. Instead, the parts of her brain normally used for speech were trained so that she could read other people's movements and body language, and she could accurately predict a person's next move. This made her a worthy member of the Batman family, and she took on the role of Bat-girl with the approval of both Bruce and Barbara, and actually became Barbara's ward. Utimately, a telepath tried to rewire her brain so that she could 'think with words'. This however deadened her reading abilities, but she was retaught by her mother, Shiva. After various battles, Cassandra kills her mother, and hangs up her bat cape.

Batman has been involved romantically with many women. In the films, there was Vicky Vale and Dr.Chase Meridian, although neither character features in the comics. In the cartoons, Andrea Beaumont, who appears in the 'Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm' film, in which a young Bruce almost gives up being Batman to marry Andrea, but she has to flee in the night due to her fathers dodgy dealings, so he continues with his life of crime fighting (you should watch this movie, It's awesome! ) In the comics, he has been involved with Talia Al Ghul (Ra's daughter), superheroines Wonder Woman and Zatanna, former sidekick Sasha Bordeaux, and others, including Silver St. Cloud, Julie Madison, physician Shondra Kinsolving, nurse Linda Page and even Lois Lane! These relationships were always short, however, Batman's attraction to Catwoman is shown in nearly every version in which the two characters appear.
It is Catwoman, if anyone, that Batman would 'settle down' with, yet it is a relationship doomed to failure...Catwoman can not stop being who she is, and neither can Batman. Bruce Wayne, however, is an international playboy and millionaire...who is never short of female company! Although, we never know what goes on between Bruce and his 'lady friends', I assume that as the playboy persona is just a front, it never goes too far. Yet in some of the Batman: The Animated Series movies and in Batman Begins, it is hinted at that these ladies are more than 'just friends'! He is a man , afterall!!

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Originally posted by Phyrra
There are so many great batman ideas, like Two-face flipping coins to make decisions... there's nothing like that in stuff like superman and spiderman now, is there!?

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To be honest with you, I hardly know anything about Superman or Spiderman! Superman, as far as I'm aware, doesn't seem to have many arch-enemies, apart from Lex Luthor (ooooh, a business man...I'm scared!!*writes this while smirking sarcastically*) Although I did read that one villain, Doomsday, actually killed Superman! (yay! Superman sucks! ) They resurrected him with some worm hole crap! Spiderman has a lot of enemies that have, like Spiderman, been involved in scientific accidents or the misuse of scientific technology, rather than having big back stories like the Batman villains. As I said before, Batman's villains were influenced by Dick Tracy, rather than other superheroes. Superman was created before Batman, in 1938, but Spiderman was not created until 1962.

Well, it's been a while, and though my back hurts, I've yet again enjoyed writing this for you! I get such a feeling of satisfaction teaching the world about the wonders of Batman!

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Post last edited by SpiritedSen on 08.03.2006, 12:39 PM.

i so totaly luv batman,
now hears a debate i often have with my cousen (sad i know)
right who would win in a fight batman or spiderman.
i think batman coz like SpiritedSen ses batman has worked harder for his strength and stamana (1 point about the batman series , i hate batgirl well its more envy then hate but i hate her.) also he's has been at the hero game alot longer then spider man bt mi cousen reccons spiderman will win coz e has powers n can beat batman up i also think dat powers arnt everthing coz look at superman es got all da powers but e was killed by doomsday who has none (by da way supermans a dick excuse mi language bt i dt like him e uses his power to abuse everyone and to just be better then everone) and i realise that der not real and im getting a littel involved but der real to mi lol
anyway... ders only one person i like more then batman n dats the flash (wally west) he's just soooo kool n another thing what is it wiht super heros and tights im mean come on deyve gotta be uncomfy.

anyway back to da question who do u think would win ina fight batman or spiderman?

longest post so far

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Sorry I didn't reply straight away, SpiritedSen ~ but seeing as you must spend several hours writing each response, I like to take my time and read it really carefully so as not to miss anything

So would I be right in saying that Robin is more interested in love and romance than Batman?

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deadened her reading abilities, but she was retaught by her mother, Shiva. After various battles, Cassandra kills her mother, and hangs up her bat cape.

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Why did Cassandra kill her mother? It seems like her mother was just helping out, teaching her how to read again... I've probably missed something here, haven't I?

Oh and you said that Batman has been involved with Louis Lane! Is that some kind of mockery at superman, or just an innocent cartoon cameo?

Again, I really appreciate your answers... oh, and what do you think of Kittycatjess' question?

__________________

Thanks to mpw3d who made ths amazing sig! The avatar was made by Sarah, from www.digik.net

Hey dude, sorry again for the delay, hope you enjoy it!!

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Originally posted by Phyrra
So would I be right in saying that Robin is more interested in love and romance than Batman?

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Absolutely!! We've watched Robin grow up through the comics, from an orphaned 8 year old to a grown man as Nightwing. Batman, despite probably being desperate for love, to fill the hole left by his parents, simply cannot allow himself to be happy. In the animated film 'Mask Of The Phantasm' when he wants to marry Andrea Beaumont, we see him go to his parents' grave and say to them "It doesn't mean I don't care, I don't want to let you down...but it just doesn't hurt so bad anymore. It's different now...please...I need it to be different now. I know I made you a promise...but I didn't see this coming. I didn't count on being happy. Please...tell me that it's o.k" *weeps for my poor Brucie*
Bruce feels that because of what happened to his parents, he's not allowed to be happy, feels guilty about being happy. All he's had for so many years is his pain and his vengeance, and to Bruce, being happy means that he has to 'get over' his parents death, and he simply can't do that. The irony obviously is that, of course, his parent's would want him to be happy. Because of this, although Batman has had flings, he can never allow a woman too close...for fear of disrespecting his parent's memory with his happiness, and maybe because if he cares about someone else as much as he cared about his parents, he thinks she'll be taken away from him too, or more correctly, that his life will put her in danger. There is probably some truth to this though, as Batman's enemies would do anything to get back at Batman...and I'm sure The Joker would adore the thought of murdering anyone close to Batman. Bruce, in a way, revels in his own misery. He has not felt happiness, or more correctly, peace, for such a long time, it is alien to him...and he is paradoxically only really happy when he is miserable. His misery tells hims that he is doing his duty and keeping his promise to his parents, and that is really the only thing that makes him happy.

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Originally posted by Phyrra
Why did Cassandra kill her mother? It seems like her mother was just helping out, teaching her how to read again... I've probably missed something here, haven't I?

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Well, I didn't really go into much detail, did I?? Cassandra, as I said, has her brain rewired by a telepath, so that she could 'think with words'. The downside of this was that it deadened her reading abilities, which left her extremely vulnerable in fights...she was so used to relying on her talents while fighting, that now she was always caught off guard. Due to this, Cassandra stopped using the Bat-girl costume. Lady Shiva, who was quite a villain in her own right, was the mother of Cassandra, but Cassandra didn't know this. At this time, Shiva fought Bat-girl, and won, because of Cassandra's inability to read people any more. Wanting to be able to defeat Bat-girl at her peak, Shiva said that she would re-teach Cassandra, on the promise that exactly one year later, the two would meet and fight to the death. Shiva re-taught Cassanda in one night, and exactly one year later, they met again. Shiva won, but felt that Bat-girl had 'wanted' to die, and because Shiva wanted a fight that Cassandra would try to win, she revived Bat-girl in the Lazarus Pit (remember, that's where Ra's Al Ghul goes to be brought back to life, and is the reason that he is, basically, immortal.) They fight again, and Bat-girl realises that it is Shiva who had the death-wish...so she breaks Shiva's jaw, but refuses to kill her.
After this, Cassandra found evidence to prove that Lady Shiva was her mother, and went to find Shiva to get some answers. As I said before, Cassandra was born to be Ra's perfect bodyguard, which was also known as the 'One Who Is All'...so when she went to the League Of Assassins to find Shiva, one of Ra's daughters proclaimed Cassandra to be the 'One Who Is All'. The allegiances of the League were split...with half following Cassandra and the other half following Shiva. In the ensuing confrontation, Cassandra was mortally wounded by her adoptive brother, and Shiva again took her to the Lazarus Pit, and then answers all of Cassandra's questions. Shiva, who had always wanted Cassandra to kill her so that she would be freed from her life of killing (which is the reason that she battled her daughter in the first place), and Cassandra, who thought that Shiva would never stop killing, fought again and Cassandra broke Shiva's neck, paralyzing her. Cassandra tried to take Lady Shiva to the Lazarus Pit, but Shiva begged her not too, and in response, impaled Lady Shiva on a hook hanging over the pit. (Shiva did actually come back to life. we assume, by falling in the pit, but Bat-girl wasn't to know that!) Anyway, after that, Cassandra quit being Bat-girl.

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Originally posted by Phyrra
Oh and you said that Batman has been involved with Louis Lane! Is that some kind of mockery at superman, or just an innocent cartoon cameo?

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Lois appeared in the Batman:The Animated Series, and in the animated film, The Batman and Superman Movie. In these contexts, Bruce and Lois briefly dated, but Lois found out, or more accurately was shown by Bruce, that he was Batman, and Lois couldn't handle it. Bruce did mention the fact that Lois seems to like Bruce and Superman, but doesn't like Batman and Clark!! Again, it was not a serious relationship, even though Lois was going to relocate to Gotham before she found out Bruce's secret. Superman and Batman are both in The Justice League together, and it doesn't seem to have caused any animosity! (I know which one of them I'd rather go out with!! ) Bruce didn't seem too upset, and knew that the relationship would end when she found out the truth...maybe that's why he told her, to sabotage the realationship so that he wouldn't have to choose between his work and her (I'm sure you know which one would have won!) It's important to note that in the series and the films, people are always finding out Batman's true identity, but in the comics, the only people who knew were Robin, Bat-girl, etc and Alfred...otherwise his secret identity wouldn't be very secret, would it??!!

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Originally posted by Phyrra
oh, and what do you think of Kittycatjess' question?

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I'm sure you can guess my answer to this!! Batman would kick Spiderman's ass!! You can say what you want about Spiderman's powers, but he only has the one, which he seems to use for either tying people up, or running away by web-slinging!! He has no actual 'skills' whereas Batman has bucketloads!! My Bruce is at the peak of physical ability in many areas, including martial arts, acrobatics, strength, and he's even an escapologist. so he wouldn't have any problems getting out of Spidey's shitty webbing!! And intellectually, Bruce is peerless...one of the world's greatest criminologists, scientists, tactitians, as well as being a master of disguise...and Peter is a high school student!! It doesn't take a genius to work out that Spiderman wouldn't stand a chance against the brain and brawn of Batman. So stick your silly bit of web to the nearest building and scuttle off home little spider...you don't stand a chance against my Batman!! (And don't worry Kitty, they're real to me too...I love my Brucie!! )

Hope that was all satisfactory Phyrra, and that you again enjoyed our Batman lesson!! If there's anything else, I'm here dude, and I am still SOO loving this thread!!!

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yerrr go bruce lol

one other thing iv notised about Justice League is that bruce has actuall paid for EVERYTHING and dats gotta be unfair just so superman can have a team i mean f**k of supreman get your own damm money

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i think da funnyest thing about the batman series is the charicter penguin this is because he is obsed with birds and yet calls himself penguin i mean someone should tell him that pengiuns are mammels not birds lol

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Post last edited by kittycatjess on 08.09.2006, 01:51 PM.

Just a small plea to UO or Jiji... I'm not sure if you do tag threads in 'General Chat' but I'll ask anyway. SpiritedSen has spent so much time on these answers, and the answers are so clear and interesting, that I believe this thread should be tagged as 'important'. There are two threads in the 'Ghibli discussion' with important tags, and they are always at the top of the board. I think this thread deserves one of those tags too.

I know you've talked quite a bit about the League of Assassins, but after reading your last answer, I wondered if I could ask you to tell me more about them? I've only seen 'Batman begins' and I think you said that the League of Assassins was renamed the League of Shadows in this film, is that right?

I know I could look it up in Wikipedia or somewhere else on the internet, but I like your answers so much more.

I hope you don't mind me asking yet another question!

Thanks SpiritedSen.

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Thanks to mpw3d who made ths amazing sig! The avatar was made by Sarah, from www.digik.net