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Originally posted by Miyrru
you are arguing from the crux that because you hate the show, the show is bad

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Where and when did I do this? I don't recall using my own dislike of the show as the basis for any arguments. I only recall mentioning aspects of the show itself - like the plot, fanservice, etc. Also you have that sort of backwards - I think the show is bad, therefore I don't like it.

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I hated Paprika and to a lesser extent I hated Whispers. I dont think they are bad shows that I waste no time in jumping in to tear them down whenever someone mentions them.

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Well, this is a discussion forum, it's supposed to contain discussions. If you want to have a debate about whether Whisper is overrated, feel free to open a thread, I'm sure many people will be happy to participate.

Also, this is the Elfen Lied thread, so I don't think it's out of line to post my thoughts on Elfen Lied. I don't think I've ever mentioned Elfen Lied outside of this thread....

Definitely dont have that backwards imo.

I wouldnt open a Whisper bashing thread because I dont think that is the right way to go about it. The show doesnt resonate with me, I dont see the value of it, so Ill just say I dont like it, I cant critique it because I cant form a solid non-biased opinion and dont want it to end up like our discussion which is little more then a flame war.

And I do believe you have commented on Elfen Lied in the What are you watching thread. Someone would see it, say what they think and then you pop in with your "the show is really terrible and here is why" response. Definitely remember seeing that a few times.

Anyways, since is this little more of a flame war, ill just leave it, no point arguing when we really havent gotten anywhere, because I think your argument is wrong and misguided and it seems you have a likewise opinion of mine as well, so no use wasting energy.

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I guess we have different interpretations of the term "flame war". I thought we were discussing aspects of Elfen Lied...as people do on discussion forums. Since you responded to my opinions, I assumed you wanted to discuss their validity. I'm not sure now.

I haven't seen the series so I have no opinion of my own, but I want to back Theowne up here. What was taking place here was most certainly a discussion, not a flame war. I don't see how a rational discussion of Elfen Leid's merits or lack thereof could be out of place in a thread devoted to the show.

Basically I was intrigued by the debate and would have liked to see it continue.

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Originally posted by Miyrru
Good summation saddletank, although I will disagree, when something gets popular it usually earned it someway.

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"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)

And I'd certainly go for a Whisper discussion thread. Heck, given the lack of much to talk about Ghibli-wise I'd go for a Howl discussion thread.

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Originally posted by Saddletank
And I'd certainly go for a Whisper discussion thread. Heck, given the lack of much to talk about Ghibli-wise I'd go for a Howl discussion thread.

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As far as I can see, it's a mild argument. I have to agree about the Howl topic though, a Gedo Senki discussion would at least have some form of merit.

I'll be presenting a few points of my own here for discussions purposes anyway, since it looks like so much fun.

For one, I don't believe that Elfen Lied is, or can, be called a popular anime. It is well known, I'll give it that, but it's not that well liked but that many people. I have to agree with Miy on this one, the show is more in line to fans of stuff like Paranoia Agent and Higurashi, not Love Hina or Negima, both of which btw, appeal more to comedy fans than harem fans. The argument as stated by Miy, is simply that there's way too much gore, not to mention that a storyline as complicated as this doesn't usually attract the usual audience familiar to paper-thin plots of Shounen Jump.

In debating reality, the use of the military is not so much as stupidity and the pure sake of generating gore. Rationally speaking, soldiers are there mainly for security reasons. The first episode clearly shows that there is a clear system for the soldiers to follow that greatly reduces the chances of harm to them as well as to prevent escape. Therefore, the only other security problem is human infiltration, since the method used to prevent the dicloni from causing harm requires self-discipline is keeping your distance. Using armed and disciplined personnel highly reduces the chances of other untrained personnel from accidentally making any form of mistakes.

Besides, if not the military, what other viable and practical options are there left? Untrained personnel obviously have no chance against them, and let's face it, in this time and age, guns are as practical as it gets in high-risk situations.

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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Well, as I've said quite a few times, my original comment was that shows like Elfen Lied and Love Hina target the same demographic, not that they are in the same genre. This was in response to the claim that Elfen Lied was a "mature" series. To bring back my old example, Naruto and Negima are two very different series which target the same demographic. This doesn't mean fans of Naruto are fans of Negima, or that their contents are exceedingly similar. There is variance within demographics.

Of course, I also believe that much of the characterization in Elfen Lied is a modified version of the sorts that you'll find in aforementioned harem/ecchi shows.

I don't really consider the plot complicated, but I guess that's subjective.

The personnel did absolutely nothing except stand there and die. The facility, having been researching with the Diclonius, clearly knew their strengths and weaknesses. What security benefits were provided by stacking the place with useless humans on top of a surveillance system? What was the point of the director bringing those twenty or so humans with him with rifles after seeing all the others die? (Apart from a gory scene where the director is left as the only one standing alive).

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Originally posted by Miyrru

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Originally posted by Saddletank
And I'd certainly go for a Whisper discussion thread. Heck, given the lack of much to talk about Ghibli-wise I'd go for a Howl discussion thread.

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I dunno man, I think that is just too much, there isnt anything to talk about, the film was just a mess.

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It depends on the mindset of those holding the keys and doing the experiments as to how cruel or degrading they wish the prison regime to be but the people are intelligent scientists and evidently not that callous or cruel, so dressing the dicloni in a one-piece jumpsuit without pockets would be a more believable scenario than keeping them naked.

I should think a better defence than soldiers would have just been lots of big secure doors, a veritable maze of armour with all the testing done remotely and food and drink sent in by remotely controlled delivery trollies.

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@Saddle: I'd have to iagree there. If I had Lucy's powers, giving me a one-piece jumpsuit is no different from givin me a knife. You saw what she did with a PEN, you can imagine what she can do with that much fabric *cough*strangulation*cough*

The point I was making was that th soldiers were not there to PROTECT the people within, but to keep tresspassers OUT of such a dangerous place, as well as to ensure that the safety procedures are followed.

The director, unfortunately, is not a trained soldier, so his natural reaction is to call for people to protect him, forgetting that they're useless, or more probably was just too panicked to even care. The soldiers, being soldiers, only know how to empty their magazines and that's it.

The way I see it, it's quite logical.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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I thought Elfen Lied is a great animated series, i can handle animated gore and nudity as i seen stuff like Heavy Metal, South Park the movie, Wicked City, Ninja Scroll, Fist of the North Star and more.

But do you think nothing is as bad as Urotsukidoji? the infamous hentai movie that spawned the naughty tentacle subgenre. Do you think that stuff gives anime a bad reputation among Americans who think anime is all that? Urotsukidoji Legend of the Overfiend earned it's NC-17 rating to rape, mutilation, gore, sex and every excess like Caligula.

If Urotsukidoji hadn't earned its high age rating, it wouldn't be doing a very good job of being porn, would it? Anyway, I would expect there to be worse examples, as it did indeed kickstart the modern tentacle trend, and so there will have been attempts to push the boundaries further since then. Hentai can give anime a bad reputation among people who are misinformed and don't realise there is a difference between the words "anime" and "hentai". However, it is only one of the anime stereotypes common in the western world, so I don't think it completely tarnishes anime's reputation.

Not that I'd watch it.

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so tired of seeing the 'tentacle' thing being used in so many different anime. even in a comedy, a girl holding a garden hose when the water is turned on, hose now out of control, and suddenly, voila, tentacles... Can't remember the title, but just used as an example...

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