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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.02.03
Location: Home, resting...
Posts: 6077 |
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You guys obviously haven't seen the Freedom project. Then again, it was made to celebrate the anniversary of Nissin Cup Noodles anyway, so eh.
Not that I mind it, the show's pretty awesome. And the opening is like WOW superb.
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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 01.09.2008, 04:12 AM |
   
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T.C.
Totoro
Registration Date: 08.27.07
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 709 |
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quote:
Originally posted by harmony-of-mar
NOT TO MENTION THE BLOOD IS TOTALLY THE WRONG COLOUR!
not fanservice, i know, but still....
actually, over-use of violence could be labeled as fanservice aswell (at least thats how i understood it) and as people have already mentioned that is another strong feature in Elfen Lied.
Roarkillers current post count is celebrating the new year.. dont post Roar, keep it like that!!...
Post last edited by T.C. on 01.09.2008, 12:44 PM.
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| 01.09.2008, 12:42 PM |
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harmony-of-mar
Baron
Registration Date: 09.10.07
Location: In the black order cafeteria, eating with allen
Posts: 2635 |
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sweet, so im not spamming.
accually, i like the bloody shows, makes em more exiting. im wierd
so thats a good side to fanservice.
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| 01.09.2008, 12:56 PM |
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T.C.
Totoro
Registration Date: 08.27.07
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 709 |
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well there you go, that is why i might see it as fanservice.. becuase it is intended to draw in viewers and has succeeded in doing that (in at least your case) by including what is essentially unneccasry violence. Im sure they could have cut down on the amount of limb severing and body slicing without change to the plot, but then an audience with similar tastes to yourself may not find it appealing.
The problem is then "what about the rest of the audience?" and are there going to be more of this more 'blood-thirsty' audience than those who are frustrated or bitter about it?
Post last edited by T.C. on 01.09.2008, 01:19 PM.
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| 01.09.2008, 01:17 PM |
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harmony-of-mar
Baron
Registration Date: 09.10.07
Location: In the black order cafeteria, eating with allen
Posts: 2635 |
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| 01.09.2008, 01:31 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
Posts: 370 |
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I disagree, 
Many people I've talked with have disregarded Elfen Lied as a gore-fest and I can't stand it, if you say the gore is unnessecary then in my opinion you just haven't understood why it's there in the first place. I'll try to give my interpretation....
The emphasis in the first episode was on the "true" nature of the Diclonius, in that they are killers. This point is made incredibly clear as whats-her-name escapes and butchers a couple of dozen people. Later on in the series though the "Diclonii" are portrayed as increasingly "more human" and easier to relate too. So in my opinion the 1st episode is meant to serve as a point to look back on, as a reminder as to who it is you're watching. Perhaps this would be better explained if I said that the intent of the creator was "yeah they may be likable and easy to relate too, but you've got to remember that these things are killers!" It's entirely shock value, and as far as I'm concerned it's there for a reason. Iirc there is very little blood and gore after the first episode, which further emphasises my point.
As to weather it's fanservice or not though.....hmmmm.....I'm not sure. I don't think Elfen Lied was aimed at the sort of audience that you're imagining (the battle royale fantype) due to the fact that excessive gore is limited to the opening episode. In response to the idea that cutting down on it would not affect the plot I have to disagree again, I think it needs to be there and the statement wouldn't be as dramatic if you removed it.
Still, over-use of violence is clearly fanservice by my definition, albeit as less common form. It's not my cup of tea anyway.
Oh and one last thing, the above view is my own opinion and is therefore very possibly wrong. I'm not going to take it personally if you think I'm being arrogant and am talking out my behind. Sadly this is all to often the case..
Atra
Post last edited by Atradius on 01.11.2008, 01:40 PM.
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| 01.11.2008, 01:33 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
Posts: 370 |
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Oh just to add to that...
I agree with saddletank that the nudity in Elfen Lied could be done without. It just made me feel embarassed sometimes on behalf of the guy, it comes across as if it were somehow handled badly by the director.
Perhaps if it would have been more obvious fanservice, like the sort of things you get in Ken Akamatsu manga, I'd have accepted it and just moved on. Not all nudity is fanservice though and Elfen Lied is one of those animes where I'm not so sure where I stand. It wasn't integral to the plot so I wouldn't miss it if it weren't there, but at the same time if they'd have just done it differently I think they'd have got away with it.
I get the feeling I'm chasing around in circles and making mountains out of molehills, I'll be quiet now.
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| 01.11.2008, 01:52 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10072 |
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Hi Atradius, good posts.
Elfen Leid's violence and nudity bothered me equally and while both might be claimed to be necessary up to a point (by the shows writers) both go well beyond reasonable.
But the violence does continue long after the first episode. Its not on such a massive scale, I'll grant you but I think in about ep.2 a soldier gets dismembered and near the end we see the group of teasing children get splattered all over the orphanage... and in the final showdown battle too a group of scientists and soldiers are slaughtered (there's at least one other gory incident inside the lab IIRC) all of these are nasty enough.
But the worst scene is in about ep.3 or 4 (I honestly can't remember and don't especially wish to go back to check) when the younger Diclonius is *forced* to attack and kill her older kin and there is that revolting battle scene in the graveyard where Lucy reduces this small child to a quadruplegic and that to me is beyond anything reasonable. I found it truely upsetting and had to stop watching.
Yeah, in some cases gore has a point, but not to that extent, it was gratuitous to the extreme.
Best thing about EL was the music.
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Post last edited by Saddletank on 01.11.2008, 01:56 PM.
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| 01.11.2008, 01:54 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
Posts: 370 |
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Ah of course, buggery,
I'd just been checking through my episodes (last time I watched EL was oohhh, a year and a bit ago) and you're right, the violence does continue on into episodes 5/6and beyond. But I'll have to stand by my opinion and say that Violence in EL is still nessecary to the story, without it it would be a hareem anime. But I will concede that if you toned it down a little you wouldn't loose out entirely.
Ultimately given the choice between the Nudity and the Violence I'd prefer to see the violence stay and the nudity go.
What about you, assuming you got the chance to get rid of one??
Atra
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| 01.11.2008, 02:06 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10072 |
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That's a hard one and not one I'm able to play along with by giving an answer
I would like to see the nudity removed entirely (there really is no point to it at all) and the violence toned down a lot after the first mayhem-ic escape scene.
But cutting both down equally would be wise, the show is clearly appealing to maladjusted males who like boobs and blood, nothing more.
However, hidden away in there I agree there is a very sweet love story. Which is a pity because that is worth watching I just refuse to go back a second time and sit through the bits I didn't enjoy.
BTW, all my own opinion, you watch what you wish, its a free country (still. just).
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Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
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| 01.11.2008, 02:14 PM |
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harmony-of-mar
Baron
Registration Date: 09.10.07
Location: In the black order cafeteria, eating with allen
Posts: 2635 |
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well its certainly obvious you blokes have become best mates.
on a side note, for an anime to catch my eye it has to have even a simple amount of blood and gore.
weird for a girl, huh?
anytghing rated between pg and ma+15 is good.
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Post last edited by harmony-of-mar on 01.11.2008, 02:19 PM.
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| 01.11.2008, 02:18 PM |
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Miyrru
Graphic Designer
Registration Date: 08.16.06
Location: Freezing cold Northern Ontario
Posts: 7178 |
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I would throw my hat in the ring with an opinion.
I haven't seen the series, but I have seen screens enough to know that the nudity is overused. I would say get rid of the nudity and leave the violence as is. violence is easier to tolerate, I am a Canadian male, i watch hockey twice a week where people are slamming each other and fighting each other, now, it isn't the same as people exploding or depictions of people dying, but I have been trained to be 'meh' to violence, so it wouldn't bother me to have it stay.
I'm speaking for anime in general i guess.
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The truth had to be seen. Anything else was a story, entertaining but more embroidered fib then crude, shapeless fact. ~Dave Eggers
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| 01.11.2008, 02:23 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
Posts: 370 |
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haha,
quote:
the show is clearly appealing to maladjusted males who like boobs and blood, nothing more.
Surely thats all males? I joke I joke 
Seriously though I think it's underrated. The story and concept are good, the animation is good (if simple) the theme music as you pointed out is good. I wouldn't miss the nudity if it went, but I think the show would miss out on a lot if you toned down the violence too much.
We obviously won't agree on this though, I don't think I could watch it again for a while anyway, although it was good, there are far better shows out there to absorb me. EL was one of the few Blood and Guts animes that I ever actually enjoyed though. For that at least I'm willing to defend it, even if it costs me my dignity.
Atra
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| 01.11.2008, 02:25 PM |
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harmony-of-mar
Baron
Registration Date: 09.10.07
Location: In the black order cafeteria, eating with allen
Posts: 2635 |
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| 01.11.2008, 02:27 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
Posts: 370 |
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I'm being ridiculed by the 15 year old girl online at 12:28 in the morning!
But your right, my dignity died along time ago. I have since filled the space it left with Naruto, theres a lot of it and it fits quite nicely.
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| 01.11.2008, 02:32 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
Posts: 370 |
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I appear to have overlooked the fact that this isn't a UK forum..........
Damn 
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| 01.11.2008, 02:33 PM |
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Miyrru
Graphic Designer
Registration Date: 08.16.06
Location: Freezing cold Northern Ontario
Posts: 7178 |
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It basically is, we have majority Uk and Canadians for some reason, i fall into the later category eh
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The truth had to be seen. Anything else was a story, entertaining but more embroidered fib then crude, shapeless fact. ~Dave Eggers
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| 01.11.2008, 02:39 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10072 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Atradius my dignity died along time ago. I have since filled the space it left with Naruto.
Oh my gosh, that's so wrong. Ditch Naruto immediately (that's an order) and make a space to stuff your dignity back in.
Although trying desperately to find the topic again, Naruto is FS-free pretty much isn't it? (having only ever watch snippets under duress with my daughter).
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Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
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| 01.11.2008, 02:39 PM |
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Nakamatsu
Susuwatari
Registration Date: 01.11.08
Location:
Posts: 5 |
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If I may, I'd like to respond to one of the discussions that took place earlier in this thread. I am currently studying abroad in the West, but I am a native Japanese and I lived there for most of my life. I will say that Theowne and Roarkiller's assesment of our society's views on anime and anime fans are 100% correct. Theowne mentioned a very good point that a few anime, Ghibli films, Sazae-san, etc, are well engraved in the public consciousness but most others are obscure and consumed mostly by otakus who are stuck in their own weird subculture. A person like me is very rare, not an otaku but who enjoys many anime. And that separation is very unique about the anime culture and perhaps a bit silly. To the Japanese, anime means Totoro, Spirited Away, and etc. The classics. Or the popular kids titles like Naruto. Mention Saikano and you get blank looks. Practically 98% of the industry is invisible to most of society and the remaining 2 % is known by everyone. But the otakus feed the demand for it and it's a big business.
This odd situation is exemplified in a conversation I had with one of my new friends here in the West. She was a big fan of the anime, "Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien". In fact, she was really starry-eyed, thinking about how in Japan, these kind of shows are appreciated and the audiences prefer these low key stories. It was maybe a bit of a shock for her to realize that the show is adapted from a hentai game for PC, and it's main fans are otaku males. When you watch it, perhaps it will be confusing to imagine that fans of the show/game can appreciate character development and story, and yet have no problem with pointless hentai scenes featuring those same characters. Isn't it contradictory? Well, that's the odd subculture of otaku. That's just the way it is.
Lately, the situation has been changing. Manga, in contrast to anime, has always been a huge thing in Japan, and companies are starting to produce anime based on manga that is directed outside the otaku market. A great example is Honey and Clover. It is a "josei" manga, aimed at young women. The whole Noitamina block is dedicated at a new, non-otaku market. Anime may be spreading further than the hole it was once in.
P.S. @ topic of Naruto
Naruto is very well known in Japan as a children's series. Currently it is pure garbage. However, the first 20, 40, perhaps even 60-70 episodes are not that bad at all. There are indeed quite a few scenes where it exceeds it's "childish" image in terms of emotion and content. A friend of mine admitted to crying - during the death scene for a villain.
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| 01.11.2008, 02:49 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
Posts: 370 |
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Yeah sorry for digressing so rapidly off the subject.
For the most part Naruto is fanservice free. I have every episode ever released, including the dreaded sports festival OVA's and can't think of a single instance of fanservice. About the closest it's ever come are the shots of Sakura in a towel at the sauna listening to Naruto, Yamato and Sai. Steamy..but not fanservice.
On second thoughts scrap the "for the most part" line. Theres no fanservice whatsoever in Naruto. Unless you count the antics of Jiraiya, but it's unlikely.
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| 01.11.2008, 02:52 PM |
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