**SPOILER** Puzzled by Movie Story Line

Hi, I just watched the movie in Singapore yesterday afternoon. Howl was very handsome and gentleman while Sophie was vrave and pretty...

Question1: The scene where Howl met Old Sophie in his castle (having breakfast together), Sophie took out a piece of paper and it burnt a mark on the table... It was a note from the Witch of Waste. Howl removed the burnt mark on the table and said the mark is gone but not the spell... what's this spell he's talking about?

Question2: Why's Howl a Birdman? Calufier said that if he transformed too many times, he would not be able to get back to human form... why? a curse?

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Originally posted by meowo
Hi, I just watched the movie in Singapore yesterday afternoon. Howl was very handsome and gentleman while Sophie was vrave and pretty...

Question1: The scene where Howl met Old Sophie in his castle (having breakfast together), Sophie took out a piece of paper and it burnt a mark on the table... It was a note from the Witch of Waste. Howl removed the burnt mark on the table and said the mark is gone but not the spell... what's this spell he's talking about?

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Howl says something like: "He, the one who grasped a shooting star, such a mindless man, your heart is mine."

Witch of the Waste probably wanted to make Howl to eat his own medicine with this strong spell, but it really doesn't seem to have an effect. It might be that the enchant works actually between Sophie and Howl, instead of WotW and Howl, but it's somewhat hard to say.

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Question2: Why's Howl a Birdman? Calufier said that if he transformed too many times, he would not be able to get back to human form... why? a curse?

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I think it was about the shooting star, which Howl ate when he was young. That gave him the ability to turn into a bird-like form. Once the star left Howl's body, he instantly fell in love with Sophie (perhaps his magic resistance lowered as WotW's spell above started to have an effect).

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Once the star left Howl's body, he instantly fell in love with Sophie (perhaps his magic resistance lowered as WotW's spell above started to have an effect).



That's rubbish haha. In the movie they obviously showed that Howl kept on fighting as he wanted to protect her. That means he had already liked her before the ending. Not because of a broken spell~~

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Originally posted by evenstar1389
That's rubbish haha. In the movie they obviously showed that Howl kept on fighting as he wanted to protect her. That means he had already liked her before the ending. Not because of a broken spell~~

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Well that was just a joke..

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oh ya, was Sophie spell ever broken? After the WofW lost all her power, Sophie began to be look younger as the show ends, or are we just seeing from Howl perspective that Sophie was beautiful not physically but inner beauty?

IMO Howl is one of Miyazaki's worst movie attempts. Too many untied ends.

Anyway, glad you watched it. Btw, join the local anime club ShiroTsubasa, we watched it together when it came out at PS.

Bout your Qs:

With reference to the movie, the witch was after Howl's heart, and I believe it was sent as a warning of some sort.

In the novel, however, it was in the form of a poem, and Howl happened to finish the poem, which put the spell in full effect. Basically, The witch could now track down wherever Howl went. I think this applies to the movie as well, but I'm not sure.

Bout the birdman, that's actually nothing. Remember, Howl is a sorcerer, so it's not surprising that he can do these kind of stuff. Most probably that particular shape-shifting spell has a downside in which the user might permanently remain as a monster. Nothing deeper than that.

On Sophie's curse, well, that remains to be questioned. According to my friend, some official source stated that Sophie reverts back to her old self when she has strong feelings towards Howl, like the meeting with Madam Sulliman. My guess is that towards the end, her feelings changed to love, and so her change back to her old self was permanent. The hair remaining white was probably an effect of the curse that has yet to be removed.

That's my 2c worth of rant.

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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-- Regarding Quesion 1: --

My own opinion:
Howl can stop Sophie's curse, but Howl can not disarm the spell.

(a). The CURSE means Sophie would become a every old "girl" as a 90-year-old woman. The curse has been stopped by Howl. Therefore Sophie may transform young back sometimes, old back to 90-year-old status sometimes, and become a 60-year-old lady. IF, Sophie knows how to adjust her own emotions or attitudes.

(b). The SPELL means the curse was stopped already. but Howl cannot turn Sophie back to the original age status. (But Sophie can change herself, although Sophie does not know how to control the age changing.)

In the art book, it is said that Sophie's outward appearance changes with her own emotions.

I personally think that it is quite an artistic way of expressing emotional fluctuations. In "Soul Mountain," the writer, Xingjian Gao (the Nobel prize winner), divided the character into I, You and He. To some extent, the illustartion of Sophie is quite similar to such kind of literate fantasy. But perhaps the majority viewers get too used to the trademark magical realism in the older Miyazaki films, and find the way of storytelling in _Howl's_ a bit odd.

I have not seen the movie yet, so I am in no position to continue my nonsense.

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if my memory doesn't fail me, Howl saw Sofie's real appearance when she was sleeping - on the first day (or night) of their acquaintance. Anyway I didn't catch the idea: if she changes with her own emotions, why did the script writer (or the story writer) include that fact that she cannot tell anyone about her damnation?..
As Roarkiller truly said, there are many untied ends... and this is one of them, I guess

Post last edited by Fail on 03.23.2005, 01:21 PM.

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Originally posted by Fail
if my memory doesn't fail me, Howl saw Sofie's real appearance when she was sleeping - on the first day (or night) of their acquaintance. Anyway I didn't catch the idea: if she changes with her own emotions, why did the script writer (or the story writer) include that fact that she cannot tell anyone about her damnation?..
As Roarkiller truly said, there are many untied ends... and this is one of them, I guess

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Well, you can get cursed and turned into a ye oldie, suddenly return to your present age, and keep silent all the way. I can see no contradiction in this part. Sophie has not ever told the others about her curse. Furthermore She has no idea that she has ever turned young in certain moments. After all she is not with a mirror all the time.

Probably the witch does not want Sophie to seek help, so she told her not to tell the others about it. But the main reason for Sophie to keep silent is her own self. She was so despaired with her work as a hatter that she has an aged mind. She is just too reluctant to seek help. Or maybe she even finds her life as a castle granny more enjoyable than a stressed hatter, so she does not have very strong will of turning herself back to a 18-year-old (which would imply returning to her dull life as a hatter).

As you know I have not yet seen the movie, so this is another bunch of nonsense.

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Sophie's curse can only be removed when she falls in love with someone as kabu's curse can only be removed when he falls in love with someone - that's why it can't be removed easily.
And she can't talk about it... there is a scene with Marcoru whom she wanted to tell but her mouth is tied together and then she just shouts out "I hate that with". Calcifer recognized the curse before and also said that she can't talk about it.

:-) love this movie ... it's so wonderfull

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Originally posted by Jiji

Probably the witch does not want Sophie to seek help, so she told her not to tell the others about it. But the main reason for Sophie to keep silent is her own self. She was so despaired with her work as a hatter that she has an aged mind. She is just too reluctant to seek help. Or maybe she even finds her life as a castle granny more enjoyable than a stressed hatter, so she does not have very strong will of turning herself back to a 18-year-old (which would imply returning to her dull life as a hatter).

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to me the movie does not have too many untied ends because if you watch the movie more than once you can just think about what it could mean by yourself... but I didn't grab everything for the first time I watched it and the way I am interpreting it is probably not the way it was totally thought... but I think there is a way to understand the scenes.
I think what makes it confusing is that there are so many details which I didn't recognize at first as for example why Sophie's curse is removed and so on.

I had to laugh out the hell when Sophie pushes the flying machine out of the castle and when Marcoru runs away... just the moment when he stands still after running... it's so funny how he looks.

Another scene is when Sophie gets angry after Howl goes to his room and Marcoru asks whether she comes from the witch of the wastes.... does anyone remember the way Marco pulls his dishes away to safe the yummie food?

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Originally posted by edenbird
but I didn't grab everything for the first time I watched it and the way I am interpreting it is probably not the way it was totally thought... but I think there is a way to understand the scenes.

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Oh, that's how I felt watching "Spirited Away" (and for the first time I watched an unlicensed copy with horrible Russian translation and didn’t understand a word I was able to understand the whole movie only after watching it in America. Though I got really impressed because I’ve never seen such a deep movie (cartoon, as I was convinced). That’s how I was introduced to Ghibli

The movie has too many untied ends, that's what I believe. Most of them can't even be understood by watching many times, because face it, the answer isn't there in the first place.

On Sophie not being able to tell anyone, neither can Calcifer, in fact. In the novel, when they say "Can't tell anyone about the spell or drop hints", it means literally that. Both can't even say anything that even comes close to obvious, unlike in the movie when Sophie said out loud about the witch, which anyone can pretty much guess that it has something to do with a spell (ey, that's what witches do).

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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in the book Sophie had some magical powers herself, she is a spell breaker. which was wat calcifer saw in her.

Gosh, the plot for the movie sounds just as complicated and inexplicable as the book. I liked the book very very much- great, funny characters- but the story definetely required a second reading to fully understand. Sounds the same for the movie.

I can't in any way help decipher the storyline of the movie since I live in America and the film hasn't been released here yet, but it sounds like perhaps this novel was not the best choice to make a film adaptation of- too many different plots going on and too little time on screen to make them all make sense.

Post last edited by starhawk on 03.26.2005, 03:11 PM.

Actually Starhawk, the movie Miyazaki made a pretty splendid interpretation of the novel. It's just that he didn't tie up the ends too well. Or rather, not at all.

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Originally posted by lycans
in the book Sophie had some magical powers herself, she is a spell breaker. which was wat calcifer saw in her.

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I am Roarkiller.
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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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From what I can gather...Sophies curse is her own.

Though it isnt given enough time at the start sophie is a girl who acts old for her age.
The witch of the waste only amplifies this.

Its a metaphor...like Marco paggot in "Rosso"....using the visual to explain the "curse".

Calcifur is Howls heart...they made a secret pact...explained by the fact if calcifurs fire dies...so will howl.
I presume that Howls is a powerful sorcerer because of calcifur.
Calcifur says to sophie if she discovers their pact and frees him he will dispell the curse put upon her.

Calcifur is a trickster...there is no curse on sophie...he just wants to be free from Howl.

The punished witch of the waste is attracted to calcifur because she knows and tries to take it. hence why hes always on the run from her.

Sophie puts howls heart back...thus freeing calcifur from the pact.

Remember Howls the man who steals womens hearts....the only one woman to take his heart & give it back to him is sophie....he probably fell for her when he saw her briefly in his past (the flashback scene when howls catches calcifur...he does see her).

In love Sophie is happy...and she is balanced emotionally....thus being young with grey hair.

Ive seen the film 3 times now....it does improve on repeated viewings to get what is going on.
Actually the film improves on repeated viewings.

But I still feel hes dropped the ball with this adaption..
The really lazy conclusion involving "turnip head" still bugs me.

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Post last edited by Hakumaku on 04.01.2005, 05:18 PM.

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Originally posted by Hakumaku
From what I can gather...Sophies curse is her own.

Though it isnt given enough time at the start sophie is a girl who acts old for her age.
The witch of the waste only amplifies this.

Its a metaphor...like Marco paggot in "Rosso"....using the visual to explain the "curse".

Calcifur is Howls heart...they made a secret pact...explained by the fact if calcifurs fire dies...so will howl.
I presume that Howls is a powerful sorcerer because of calcifur.
Calcifur says to sophie if she discovers their pact and frees him he will dispell the curse put upon her.

Calcifur is a trickster...there is no curse on sophie...he just wants to be free from Howl.

The punished witch of the waste is attracted to calcifur because she knows and tries to take it. hence why hes always on the run from her.

Sophie puts howls heart back...thus freeing calcifur from the pact.

Remember Howls the man who steals womens hearts....the only one woman to take his heart & give it back to him is sophie....he probably fell for her when he saw her briefly in his past (the flashback scene when howls catches calcifur...he does see her).

In love Sophie is happy...and she is balanced emotionally....thus being young with grey hair.

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