Ghibli Tavern - Elfen Leid

Registration Date: 04.16.10
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One of the best animes I've seen, sure it's gory, lots of nudity . But you have to be mature to watch it, I suppose.

Its not really all about that though. It has an absoloutly fantastic storyline, music, animation, everything, just be prepared for goryness. Anyway, its been said the first ep puts many audiences off ( not me ;D), but what they tend to do is sort of ease the seriesness of the anime by putting in some comedy etc.

But all in all, one of best animes I've seen, defanatly recommend

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06.25.2010, 03:31 PM

arren18
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quote:
Originally posted by Liaam
One of the best animes I've seen, sure it's gory, lots of nudity . But you have to be mature to watch it, I suppose.

Interesting you should say that, because I often get the impression that the gore and nudity are just thrown in as much as possible, in a way I'd say is pretty immature. And that puts me off.

Maybe I'll give it a shot one day.

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06.25.2010, 04:45 PM

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I still really like this series, one of my favourites. Great story with good characters and some intrigue. Ill second the motion that its meant for a more mature audience, while there are parts that come off as servicey, they are in the far minority compare to the rest. It isnt all thrown in there as otaku bait.

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06.25.2010, 05:13 PM

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I don't think it's intended for a mature audience at all. I would peg its intended audience as teenage to young adult men, similar to Love Hina.

Post last edited by Theowne on 06.25.2010, 08:44 PM.

06.25.2010, 06:12 PM

Registration Date: 04.16.10
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quote:
Originally posted by Theowne
I don't think it's intended for a mature audience at all. I would peg its intended audience as teenage to young adult men, similar to Love Hina.

Its rated 18 LOOOL :L But yes, i also see that perhaps its immature in a sense they throw in a lot of gore and nudity, but you as a viewer have to be mature about the gore and nudity itself. I think it was a bit silly of them to have put so much in the first episode, surely they must've realised this would put a lot of viewers off?? Never mindd.

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06.26.2010, 03:36 PM

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quote:

Its rated 18 LOOOL :L

What is rated 18? Elfen Lied was originally published in Weekly Young Jump, a manga magazine that targets teenage and young-adult male readers, as opposed to their other magazine, Weekly Shonen Jump, which is aimed at young boys. Any reader or viewer of any age could walk into a Japanese store and purchase the manga or anime. Don't confuse western labels of what's mature or not with the actual intended audience.

quote:
but you as a viewer have to be mature about the gore and nudity itself

I don't know what you're trying to say, or how someone can be "mature about the gore and nudity itself". In my experience, teenagers are the ones who are most fascinated with gore and nudity. With adults, it depends on whether something is tastefully incorporated into the story or not.

If you go on the IMDB page, you'll find that the highest average score given to Elfen Lied comes from viewers under 18.

Post last edited by Theowne on 06.26.2010, 04:18 PM.

06.26.2010, 04:16 PM

Saddletank
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quote:
Originally posted by Liaam I think it was a bit silly of them to have put so much in the first episode, surely they must've realised this would put a lot of viewers off?

It was the gratuitous nudity and violence of the first few minutes of episode one that significantly helped made Elfen Lied so popular.

I wouldn't be surprised if the first five minutes of the first episode are up there in the top ten most notorious moments of anime history precisely because it was intended to draw in masses of young male viewers.

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Post last edited by Saddletank on 06.26.2010, 05:41 PM.

06.26.2010, 05:40 PM

arren18
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quote:
Originally posted by Liaam
Its rated 18 LOOOL

Whenever I've seen any of the DVDs, they've been 15.

Anyway, whatever the age certificate, it's arguably more down to the censors not wanting young people to see sexual or violent scenes. And besides, plenty of 18-year-olds aren't very mature at all.

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06.26.2010, 05:56 PM

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I still dont buy the gratuitous nudity in the opening, how would I hold a genetically modified life form that was really powerful? Well id give them a suit and tie and make sure I break out my best glass wear to serve them tea...yeah right, i leave them naked and chain them up. In reference to just the opening scene, that doesnt bother me at all, cant argue the violence part however, but I felt like its getting the wrong impression of the series on the whole. Ill grant that later on things like the bath scene its not necessary and there are some plot inconsistencies, but for the most part it is a solid story, that has a different take and gives me an interesting world to reside in. I would disagree with you Theowne on that it is targeted to the same audience as Love Hina. Love Hina is a straight fanservice harem show, Elfen Lied is probably the polar opposite. Only connectors are that there are some naked shots in Elfen Lied, mostly under fine circumstances, a few that aren't and perhaps the cousin romance thing is a harem trope, but other then that, they are pretty darn far apart, cant agree with them being made for the same audience.

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06.26.2010, 08:22 PM

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Shows don't have to be identical to be aimed at the same audience. They merely have to have elements which appeal to the same age group. In this case, Elfen Lied and Love Hina both have elements which appeal to the male teenage/young adult market. Another example of two shows that are superficially different but targeted at a similar market is Naruto and Negima.

The core idea behind Elfen Lied has potential and there are a few strong scenes, but IMO it is wrapped in a fairly bad "coating" laced with fanservice (both gore and nudity), shallow harem romance, and some pretty nonsensical behaviour by the lead characters.

If someone took the subject material and put out something a little more serious, I'm sure it would have been regarded a bit better critically - though you'd lose a lot of the fans that love the immature aspects of Elfen Lied.

Post last edited by Theowne on 06.26.2010, 08:44 PM.

06.26.2010, 08:40 PM

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I still dont like it. If someone came to me and said they loved Love Hina one of my recommendations isn't Elfen Lied. Even if I tell them that it has nudity, and a harem, although im not sure when a love triangle and that is stretching it, counts as a harem, but sure, I am pretty sure they would come back and give me a funny look, there is no comedy, there is the grimness of all the blood and violence, there is the mystery aspect to it, they are fundamentally different shows, they arent like anywhere outside of that there are humans in it.

Negima and Naruto Im sure is even that fair, but I havent seen either one because Negima is harem crap and Naruto is shonen crap, again. I understand what you are trying to say, but I just dont think its there. The fundamentals are different, the story they are trying to say are both different, there isnt a link, they cant be grouped into the same category unless you use nudity as the criteria and that is it. Elfen Lied is not designed as a fanservice show, while it may have elements that under different eyes would be considered fanservice, it isnt what the show is about, where Love Hina is about fanservice, its the running thread that holds the series together.

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Post last edited by Miyrru on 06.26.2010, 09:06 PM.

06.26.2010, 09:05 PM

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Again, I didn't say they were identical shows in genre or tone, I said their target demographics were the same, teenage/young adult males.

quote:
although im not sure when a love triangle and that is stretching it, counts as a harem

I think you're misusing the term harem. It doesn't mean every girl is infatuated with a character, just that a male character is surrounded by the opposite sex. This is pretty much Elfen Lied and Love Hina: a male character lives in an inn surrounded by female characters.

quote:
I havent seen either one because Negima is harem crap and Naruto is shonen crap, again

They're both shonen shows . That's the point, their subjects may seem different, but they have the same target audience.

You have to take a somewhat broader perspective than just looking at story details. Elfen Lied and Love Hina differ on specifics, but I think their approach to appealing to their audience is pretty much the same. And while you argue that Elfen Lied wasn't designed as a fanservice show, I disagree very much. Is it a coincidence that every single deadly killer in the show is an adorable girl? Do you think all the pools of blood and gore were necessary to tell the story and not overdone at all? Well, I don't.

06.26.2010, 10:10 PM

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Well since anime in general is targeted at young males more then any demographic, Im not sure that is anything other then a far wide ranging generalization. Im pretty sure I can say most live action films are targeted at young adult males, which includes things of many genres and subject matters. I think age and sex are irrelevant here. They are targeting a type of fan, types include otakus, are people like us who are more critically oriented. Love Hina is for otakus, Elfen Lied is for those more critically oriented.

I think that is also a terrible definition of the term harem, for as it is used in anime circles I think is the only one that makes sense. What about a show like Hanamaru Kindergarten? There is a teacher that is surrounded by girls, unfortunately they are the loli-est of lolis, is that a harem? By your definition it is. In Elfen Lied there is one or maybe two characters that qualify as even love interests, while Lucy is definitely debatable, the other is the kid that they find and adopt, not sure that counts, and the other is Nana, which is only around for a short stay and again is not a love interest or potential love interest. I dont think harem means infatuated with them either, but what if I live at home with my single mother and 3 sisters? Does that count as a harem? Im clearly over exaggerating, but thats a bad example by you and I think its a misuse of the term yourself which is designed to prove your point.

Im not even sure that you have watched the show if you think that every single deadly killer is a female, how bout our machinated military fellow? Pretty sure he is male and physically violent to women in a derogatory fashion as opposed to just the usual stereotypes.

And I find your last point interesting, yeah why use females and have it overly bloody? Im not sure, but to be honest havent seen it done too much, how many male vs male shows that would be in a similar vein are like this out there? Probably much more then ones that star women. I know things like Black Lagoon and such are going to be compared and brought up, but that is the target audience imo, not the ones that watch bad harem romance comedies.

If you hate Elfen Lied, thats fine. Its your opinion and I respect that, but dont just hate on the show and slag it down just because you hate it. Ill give that im defending it because i did enjoy it and wasnt attracted to it for the nude scenes. Actually I kinda enjoyed the violence aspect. Havent seen a good slasher in a long time. Why is the Saw franchise of horror/slasher movies so successful? Graphic depiction of human damage. Anime doesnt do it very often, so its nice to see it for a change, rough edges aside, its different and not just a run of the mill fanservice show imo.

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06.26.2010, 10:39 PM

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Wow, quite a lot of mixed opinions about this topic, eh? Each to themselves though, everyones entitled to there own opinion and views. But if you're going to watch it, for me one of the nastiest most off putting parts was near the end of the series, where a girl gets cut up. They also have themes of child rape, so be prepared. Anyway, if you haven't tryed it, give it a shot And i guess if you don't like it, you don't like it. End of

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06.27.2010, 08:35 AM

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quote:
Originally posted by arren18
quote:
Originally posted by Liaam
Its rated 18 LOOOL

Whenever I've seen any of the DVDs, they've been 15.

Anyway, whatever the age certificate, it's arguably more down to the censors not wanting young people to see sexual or violent scenes. And besides, plenty of 18-year-olds aren't very mature at all.

18 year olds sometimes arn't mature I guess, but I think I sort of put it the wrong way. They may not be mature, like they muck about all the time etc etc, but they have to be responsible enough to accept that it has gore and stuff in it.. Okay, I re- phrased it wrong again didn't I?
Gosh I suck at this

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06.27.2010, 08:38 AM

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quote:
Love Hina is for otakus, Elfen Lied is for those more critically oriented.

No, Elfen Lied is targeted at otakus as well. One obvious hint is the time of airing. Elfen Lied originally aired in the middle of the night on Japanese television. Only otaku shows air at these times. Of course, in my opinion the entire show is evidence of it as well, from the tacked on harem-ness to the violence/gore.

quote:
I think that is also a terrible definition of the term harem, for as it is used in anime circles I think is the only one that makes sense. What about a show like Hanamaru Kindergarten? There is a teacher that is surrounded by girls, unfortunately they are the loli-est of lolis, is that a harem? By your definition it is.

No, because harem shows usually have an element of ecchi to them. Love Hina does, and so does Elfen Lied, with its random bath scenes and Nyu walking around naked for no apparent reason.

quote:
Im not even sure that you have watched the show if you think that every single deadly killer is a female, how bout our machinated military fellow?

I am talking about the Diclonius. They are a race of deadly creatures, and apparently every one is an adorable girl with colored hair. Does this sound like a serious, critically-oriented story? Sounds more like otaku bait to me.

06.27.2010, 12:01 PM

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Time slot aside, if not sure this is a show with subject matter that would occupy a prime time slot even in gore-crazy america. Of course something like that is on late at night, because it would keep it away from kids, sure it would be in the otaku wheelhouse, and im speculating that since I believe we have had the discussion that anime is almost taboo for most Japanese people, even for the casual watcher, the programing is on at some god awful hour.

Element of ecchi eh? not sure it is entirely lewd, bath scenes maybe, but rarely are characters naked for no apparent reason.

There were male diclonious too, granted yeah you could make the argument that they didnt have powers, but they were there, and had a mutation with no hair and horns on their head, you can make a legitimate argument to the contrary yet again.

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06.27.2010, 01:04 PM

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Actually there is not so much restriction for gore on Japanese television, particularly on specialty channels. Generally, the only anime which air at the middle of the night are otaku shows. As for ecchi, I have a hard time agreeing that "rarely are characters naked for no reason". The show seemed to have a field day with Nyu lifting up her shirt for no reason. As for the male diclonius, you're missing the general point. When there's a trend where all the major "deadly killers" happen to be adorable little girls, you know that a show is setting up some otaku bait. It's a recognizable trope.

In the first episode Lucy escapes from her facility. Why does the facility, which has been studying Diclonius for a long time, send in wave after wave of humans that they know will be completely ineffective at stopping her in any way? Perhaps.... because it's an opportunity to show a lot of gore and death and impress people at how bloody it all is...

Post last edited by Theowne on 06.27.2010, 07:15 PM.

06.27.2010, 05:57 PM

Saddletank
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I would sum it up by saying that Elfen Lied is one of the most popular animes of all time that doesn't deserve to be so.

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06.29.2010, 05:46 AM