  |
| Author |
|
husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12789 |
|
|
 10.07.2015, 07:23 PM |
   
|
Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lynnie Unless there are a lot of censoring/script changes.
How do you find out these changes? How do you know an anime might be worth watching with subtitles or not?
What if there not a lot of changes but only a few?
What if there's only ONE change? How important might that one change be?
What do you think of the dubbed lines spoken by Jiji in Kiki's Delivery Service? Were his added lines relevant? Not relevant? Useful? Funny? If so, why?
What about added music (which is done at the same time as the dub?). Is this important or not?
Do you not think the Japanese language is beautiful to hear being spoken?
Hearing the characters talking with American accents has what kind of effect on the viewer do you think?
__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
|
|
| 10.07.2015, 07:51 PM |
|
Lynnie
Kodama
Registration Date: 10.07.15
Location: With [BASARA's] Katakura Kojuro & Winnie the Pooh
Posts: 49 |
|
|
@husky51 thank you very much for the welcome! Nice avatar btw!
quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
quote:
Originally posted by Lynnie Unless there are a lot of censoring/script changes.
How do you find out these changes? How do you know an anime might be worth watching with subtitles or not?
What if there not a lot of changes but only a few?
What if there's only ONE change? How important might that one change be?
What do you think of the dubbed lines spoken by Jiji in Kiki's Delivery Service? Were his added lines relevant? Not relevant? Useful? Funny? If so, why?
What about added music (which is done at the same time as the dub?). Is this important or not?
Do you not think the Japanese language is beautiful to hear being spoken?
Hearing the characters talking with American accents has what kind of effect on the viewer do you think?
Sigh, talk about a lot of questions. Leme make a list or something.
Kay, 1 first question (I'll group them):
I find about these changes by several forums, for example this one or on tumblr. Mostly speaking to other GHIBLI fans and sharing our experiences. How do I know when an anime is worth watching with subs? If the dub isn't to my liking but the story still caught my attention. I usually watch subs first then dub, honestly. Or I see trailers of the anime and I decide from there.
2nd batch of questions:
If there are only a few changes then I'll stick to dub, I'm assuming I already watched it dubbed first and if I heard there were only a few changes, it wouldn't make me go watch the subs, it'll only make me google the changes- there are usually tumblr posts or something outlining the changes of anything. Only ONE change? Kay like depending on what the change is....like lets say they made Chihiro into like...a man or something- that would be questionable and yeah, I would watch it subs. So basically, if the change is really outrageous or something, I would watch with subs.
Third batch (Jiji): I'm indifferent to this case, it reminds me when (the original 90s anime of Sailor Moon) Luna was given more lines (in which she did not have in certain scenes) to further the plot and to help the audience move along the story. It was irrelevant and not needed for it was (the plot or w/e) would have been revealed shortly after or w/e. So yeah, indifferent. In other words, I don't care. Funny or whatever.
Fourth batch: Added music, important or nah? Depends on what it is, again like everything else, it all depends. I mean if they add some dubstep when Howl is taking Sophie away and walking on air, that would be completely random. If it helps, it helps. A good example would be the dubbing of Final Fantasy games, a lot of the times, they redo the sounds as well. In FFX-2, the main protagonist sings but is also backed up by another singer (two are singing at this time now), but in the original game, you could only hear one voice while in the english dubbing, you hear two- this did in fact enhance the experience of the song itself and I know a lot of people did appreciate that one aspect.
Fifth batch: Do you not think that the Japanese language is beautiful? Are you assuming that I don't just because I like dubs????? Firstly, it is beautiful, and I'll tell you what, other languages are beautiful too (whoops, its all about opinions and perspective- everyone has different tastes). I think you missed the part where I said I could watch either subs or dubs. And if the dub is good, I'll watch it dubbed. If it aint good, I'll watch it subs. That's all to it. I like the sound of Korean?? But it doesn't mean I'll go watch animation dubbed in Korean....anyways, me+dub goes well, I tend to multitask a lot when I'm watching films and also, especially with Ghibli films- a lot of things are going on and I really want to take the time to look at everything, every detail, etc but I know I'll miss some if I just have to look at the subtitles. Sure, I could pause the film but that would get annoying..especially when there are others watching with me. Plus, most GHIBLI dubs are pretty decent (at least for me) so I don't mind it at all.
Last batch: American accents:
Unless the accents don't sound stupid and they actually
fit the character- I'm fine with it. For example, the dubbing of Black Butler- they have English accents- sure it was a nice touch for sure but I didn't choose to watch the dub b/c of them. It doesn't really enhance much but it was fun??
Also another note:
Spoiler!, highlight to read.
It's about dubbing and censoring. The 90s anime of Sailor Moon's script was heavily altered. I was debating to re-watching it with subs but VIZ redubbed it without any editing of the script, aka no censoring, no alteration of the plot, etc. So, I decided to watch it with the new dub. Stable voice actors (gets better throughout the seasons)- so, they aren't randomly changed, etc.
Now, with Card Captor Sakura, that was also edited back then. Instead of watching the anime, I just went to the manga (I'm a CLAMP fan myself (and ofc a Sailor Moon fan)).
I found out about these changes through tumblr...in case any one was wondering.
|
Oh yeah, off topic but nice avatar.
__________________
Post last edited by Lynnie on 10.11.2015, 03:52 PM.
|
|
| 10.11.2015, 03:24 PM |
|
Koda
Ohmu
Registration Date: 07.09.13
Location: England
Posts: 454 |
|
|
I started as many did with dubs, and with Ghibli I always watched dubbed first as I always wait for them to be released on Blu Ray buy them, then watch them. I don't have very much time to browse the internet to watch them, nor is my connection good enough to download a movie. Now recently I got CR and it has an APP on the PS4 so I watch tons on there. all subbed.
Now I used to think I'd hate subs, but now I don't mine. I don't notice many differences, when watching subbed or dubbed.
Sure the message might have changed slightly, more often or not to match with the English language but the animation is what is very important in Ghibli films too and the best quality to be had is Blu Ray, not talking 4K so in essence, it doesn't matter to me as much. I would like to re watch them all with subs to see the difference one day. But now I just enjoy the films, now my question here is
In Whisper of the Heart, does Country Roads still feature in the Japanese origional audio ??. I found it odd to be there, an American song the version sung by Olivia Newton-John to be featured. Though it's one of my favourite scenes 
__________________
"A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge
|
|
| 10.27.2015, 08:37 PM |
|
husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12789 |
|
|
| 10.29.2015, 01:30 PM |
|
belborges
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.01.15
Location: Brazil
Posts: 293 |
|
|
A lot can be missed in translation but I don't think this is a bad thing. When, for example, the translator changes a Japanese joke - that wouldn't make sense in English at all - to an English joke - that may have a different meaning from the original one but gets the same reaction from the viewer -, they do so the viewers share the same experience, regardless of culture. Of course, it is better to have a straightforward translation, but these changes may happen in the way. I believe they happen for the best.
Okay. You want to feel and see what the author meant originally, rather than a translator's interpretation of that. But... You'll only be able to fully experience that if you're fluent in the original language. If you're not totally fluent, than the subs will be more like a "backup" that'll help you understand the things you missed. I'm Brazilian, so my native language is Brazilian Portuguese. I can understand English well, but there're things that I just don't get, not to mention the different English accents.  In this case, subtitles really help me. What about people who're not fluent at all? Unfortunately, it's impossible for them to fully experience the movie/animation/book/whatever as they were meant to be. In this case, dubbing or subtitles will work just the same. We can only hope that the translation was well made.
Howeverrrrrr, there's another point we need to consider. The acting. I think this is a major problem that makes me switch from dub to sub, since sometimes the voice actors in the dubbed versions lack emotion/talent, or their acting doesn't match their character. If the voice actor does a good job, I don't see why not watch it dubbed.
Then again, it's my point of view.
Fun fact:
The Brazilian dubbing industry was able to improve a lot over the years since most entertainment material we got was foreigner to us. Of course, there are really poor dubs, but most is done with love. Brazilian Portuguese dubs to Ghibli movies are AMAZING. Nothing will stop me from watching Spirited Away in Portuguese. I've watched it in Japanese and English many times, but in Pt-Br it's really, really nice.
Off-topic:
This is my first post in Ghibli Tavern. I'm really excited. It's been a long time since I last participated in forums. I hope we can be good friends. 
Post last edited by belborges on 01.04.2016, 04:14 PM.
|
|
| 11.01.2015, 05:40 PM |
|
husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12789 |
|
|
| 11.01.2015, 11:56 PM |
|
Koda
Ohmu
Registration Date: 07.09.13
Location: England
Posts: 454 |
|
|
Welcome and it's amazing that it's dubbed into so many languages so the whole world can share Ghibli. I do want an answer to Country roads please someone must know ahhhhhhhhhhh
__________________
"A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge
|
|
| 11.02.2015, 07:02 PM |
|
Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
|
|
"In Whisper of the Heart, does Country Roads still feature in the Japanese original audio? I found it odd to be there, an American song the version sung by Olivia Newton-John to be featured. Though it's one of my favourite scenes "
Yes, of course its in there. Its central to the theme of the film. Its the opening credits song as well as being sung in the film.
Back in the 70s the Olivia Newton-John version was apparently popular in Japan.
The song has slightly altered lyrics in the film and of course Shizuku adds her own as well.
__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
|
|
| 11.02.2015, 08:27 PM |
|
belborges
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.01.15
Location: Brazil
Posts: 293 |
|
|
Here you go, Saddles.
Post last edited by belborges on 01.04.2016, 04:10 PM.
|
|
| 01.04.2016, 04:06 PM |
|
Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
|
|
Aww, thanks. I completely forgot it was in the Ghbli section. Duh.
__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
|
|
| 01.04.2016, 04:11 PM |
|
husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12789 |
|
|
| 01.05.2016, 04:44 AM |
|
Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
|
|
And who are you? 
__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
|
|
| 01.05.2016, 05:16 AM |
|
husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12789 |
|
|
| 01.06.2016, 02:16 PM |
|
paperbullet
Kodama
Registration Date: 11.16.06
Location: Southern California
Posts: 45 |
|
|
I find that the Ghibli dubs are usually serviceable, if not outright superior.
I think that Disney's dub of "Castle in the Sky" is superior to the original mostly because of what they did with the score - sweeping orchestral music instead of the digitized music in had in the original.
That was the #1 thing that bothered me about Nausicaa, to be honest - the jarring difference between the lovely orchestral music and the video-gamey pieces.
"Spirited Away" was fine, except for the aforementioned change to the end of the movie. "Princess Mononoke" worked very well. Some people criticized Jiji's voice in "Kiki's Delivery Service" as being too obnoxious, but I didn't mind it.
Only big problem I can think of with the dubs was that of "Grave of the Fireflies" - Setsuko sounded far too old.
|
|
| 05.01.2016, 03:53 PM |
|
Stephen
Kodama
Registration Date: 10.27.15
Location:
Posts: 11 |
|
|
Dubbed is the best option for a child who is learning to read. Even as they get older it can be a big ask to expect them to read for two hours. Our first subtitled film was Belle et Sébastien, but that was fairly simple dialogue in French, a language we know quite well.
|
|
| 06.11.2016, 01:59 AM |
|
makc
Ohmu
Registration Date: 07.12.16
Location:
Posts: 437 |
|
|
unless dubs are really bad, why subs? I mean, if I wanned to read, I would read a book.
if I can understand the language of the original (such as english) I watch it the way director wanted it to be. great. but if I do not understand anything (like with japanese) and have no intention to learn that language, why listen to it? vs dubs conveniently made in your native language.
moreover, there are times when dubs are actually better than original. off the top of my head, russian doom iii had way better voice acting.
__________________
It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so loving what - Stephen Fry.
|
|
| 08.14.2016, 07:29 PM |
|
Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
|
|
This doesn't only apply to anime, but to all foreign language films.
1) Its the original language with the original spoken voices, so you get the full intended characterisation and expression.
2) You can pick up a great deal of the original language as you listen to subtitled foreign films - this can just broaden your mind or be a real learning experience. It is always wise to be open to new things and learning this way is actually fun. If someone is personally closed to this that is their choice but for many it is a source of learning.
3) Some foreign languages are just beautiful to listen to and Asian ones are among those. Listening to spoken Japanese, especially by women, is for me a real delight.
4) If the show or movie is fansubbed you can usually rely on high levels of accuracy. If its a movie subbed via official channels you can usually rely on the original producer being okay with it which should be good enough for anyone.
5) Sometimes the lip synching with dubs is bad and spoils the immersion.
6) Sometimes meaning is seriously changed with a foreign language dub because a dub can be marketed at a slightly different demographic than subtitled films and 'corners are cut' with regards to local, cultural or social nuances. Subtitles do this far less frequently. See the earlier discussion.
7) In the case of anime, hearing the characters speak with American accents is a personal put-off for me. It feels completely weird and uncomfortable though this is a personal issue that I know the vast majority don't share.
Yes, there may be instances of a dub being very good but people usually have to cite specific examples for that. Subtitled shows and movies never need citing for good examples because they are everywhere.
__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
|
|
| 08.15.2016, 07:43 AM |
|
saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
This doesn't only apply to anime, but to all foreign language films.
3) Some foreign languages are just beautiful to listen to and Asian ones are among those. Listening to spoken Japanese, especially by women, is for me a real delight.
i think this point applies to anime only. Anime voice is an overacted voice or normal voice(i am not sure) that is like voices in a Play. Normal Live Action movies have regular voice. So that is quite different.
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
|
|
| 08.15.2016, 10:05 AM |
|
Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
|
|
This is a stereotypical remark of the worst kind.
There are plenty of anime movies that do not have overacted voices. That generally is more prevalent in TV shows but even so there are many TV shows where actors speak normally. Not every anime is full of squeaky moe schoolgirls or magical flying maidens shouting their heads off.
Listen to the female actresses in Garden of Words, Only Yesterday, Ghost in the Shell, Jin Roh, Sky Crawlers and dozens of others.
For TV series consider Mushishi, Issukan Friends (in many places), Kimi ni Todoke, Usagi Drop, Hibike Euphonium, Monogatari (absolutely stuffed full of down-played intensive spoken scenes), Beck, Ano Hana, Aku no Hana, Hanasaku Iroha... the list is endless.
Overacted voice acting is probably in a minority and seems to affect certain genres more.
__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
|
|
| 08.15.2016, 12:23 PM |
|
|
|
|
|
Online Ghibli
Ghibli Tavern is powered by WoltLab, hosted by Teragon Networks
|
|
