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Kodama



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I was reading the Wikipedia article for Makoto Shinkai and it said that some reviewers called him "the New Miyazaki", which, while Shinkai said is "an overestimation", got me thinking:

Who are the directorial frontrunners in the anime community? Who could possibly fill the gap that Miyazaki and Takahata will leave behind them when they inevitably pass on?

I don't say this in a morbid sense. I, like all of us, find it an understatement to say that I am not looking forward to that. But is there anyone, a studio or an individual, that could follow in their footsteps? Any hope for the future?

For me, the aforementioned Makoto Shinkai is a very good director, but he has some weak entries in his filmography ("Children Who Chase Lost Voices", for me) and he seems stuck in one kind of storytelling (love stories, as seen in "Voices from the Distant Star", "Five Centimeters Per Second", "The Place Promised in Our Early Days" and "The Garden of Words", representing 4 out of the 5 films I've seen from him). "Five Centimeters" and "Garden of Words" were excellent, but I want to see him move away from the same kind of story.

Mamoru Hosoda is another strong contender. "Wolf Children" was superb - my new favorite film, actually - and "The Girl Who Leapt Through Time" was entertaining. "Summer Wars" might have been a copy of one of his earlier films, but I still enjoyed it (possibly because I never saw that earlier Digimon film). I still haven't seen his latest "The Boy and the Beast", but for me, Hosoda is my pick for the best individual anime director working outside of Ghibli. If I remember correctly, he was going to direct "Howl's Moving Castle" before the project was moved to Miyazaki-san.

It's too bad that Satoshi Kon passed away. I don't think he ever made a bad film ("Perfect Blue", "Tokyo Godfathers", "Millennium Actress" and "Paprika" being the showpieces) and he might have risen still higher had he not died suddenly.

Anyone I missed? What are your opinions on this?

Post last edited by paperbullet on 05.02.2016, 09:32 AM.

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belborges
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Very interesting topic.

Hosoda and Shinkai are the first two that come to people's minds when talking about Japanese feature film animation, indeed. Maybe they'll be the "frontmen" from now on, without Miyazaki, Takahata and Kon.

There're some great film directors out there too, Mamoru Oshii, Hiromasa Yonebayashi (he left Ghibli, right?), Katsuhiro Otomo, and so on. I don't know what they've been doing, but I think they'd be on an equal footing.

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Mamoru Oshii and Katsuhiro Otomo don't seem too promising. Neither of them has made anything of note - as far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong - for more than ten years.

Oshii made "Ghost in the Shell" in 2004. He also made "Jin-Roh" and "Angel's Egg". While those are all fairly well-known - GitS most of all, especially with the upcoming live-action film, which I have high hopes for - he hasn't made much else, especially in recent years. Some random directorial bits - an adaptation of "Halo", some "Patlabor" stuff - but nothing really big.

Otomo is pretty much in the same boat. He made "Akira" and "Steamboy" - the first of which is arguably the most influential anime film of all time in the West and the second of which is... forgettable, really. At least I think so. He directed a live-action adaptation of "Mushi-shi" in 2006 and an anthology of short pieces called "Short Peace" in 2013. "Short Piece" seems interesting, but it's not much to show given how long it took for him to direct again. I don't think he's making a comeback.

Yonebayashi, however, has two Ghibli titles under his belt - "The Secret World of Arietty" and "When Marnie Was There". I think it's too early to tell whether he'll come into his own or not. He'll have to make an original piece, I think, before I really put him up there.

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Saddletank
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Yashuhiro Yoshiura has skill and inventiveness. He directed "Time of Eve" and "Patema Inverted" both of which are stunning and engaging. He has done a couple of short OVAs as well.

Like the others his pace of work is very slow and while he can dig out a shining diamond now and then he cannot create a library of important works at the rate Miyazaki did.

I think that was the second of Miyazaki's great signatures - after the quality there was the quantity, he seemed driven by life's energy to produce material, a major film every 2 to 3 years at his peak. He also had clear political, social and artistic goals, none of his follow on directors demonstrate that. I think he'll remain unique.


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Post last edited by Saddletank on 05.07.2016, 04:10 AM.

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Theowne
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Coincidentally, the last time I dropped in on the Tavern it was in the midst of a similar discussion.

My data on anime films is a few years old at this point, but I agree with much of what you say, paperbullet. Regarding Shinkai, he has a lot of fans, and I haven't seen all of this recent work, but my impression of him was always that he was very good at doing a particular kind of story, but I don't feel in his movies the range and talent exhibited by Miyazaki. Miyazaki was driven by strong opinions on the world and after reading his books, you see the diversity of opinions which factor into even the smallest of scenes.

As you say, Hosoda is the other common candidate. He certainly does have the range and capability to produce many solid films. But to me, his films feel like solid, safe, commercial films. I enjoy watching them, and they can be emotionally satisfying, but they don't move or inspire me.

Satoshi Kon was certainly the one to watch, if it weren't for his untimely demise. "Millenium Actress" is still one of the most beautiful animated films I've ever seen.

The director I'm watching is Sunao Katabuchi, a former employee of Studio Ghibli who made "Mai Mai Miracle", one of the few movies of recent times which gave me the kind of enjoyment only Ghibli films had before it. He's making another one, "To All the Corners of This World", which I'm anticipating.

It's also worth pointing out that Miyazaki's success, for all his talent, is also a product of the right people meeting at the right. Miyazaki, Toshio Suzuki, and Takahata, were all important factors in the success of Studio Ghibli, and he was basically given an immense amount of control and freedom in his filmmaking.

Post last edited by Theowne on 05.08.2016, 02:11 AM.

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Saddletank
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That last point is a very good one Theowne.

If you look at the sponsorship/producer logos on some recent anime films from people like Shinkai you can see that there are powerful vested interests that are there to finance a success. This means a safe subject that will sell well and not bring controversy.

Because of this Shinkai is never going to produce a film like The Wind Rises that deals with complex and borderline issues.

BTW, good to see you again!


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Good to see you too Saddletank!

Of course, let's not forget that Miyazaki had his work up to that position over many years of working under others. But even considering that, his position was so unique. I still think back to the "making of Mononoke" documentary. Miyazaki was still writing the finale even as the prologue was being animated! I cannot think of many instances where a high-budget production was given reigns with such freedom to a single person. And that was the trust and ability of Toshio Suzuki, who could get Miyazaki the resources he wanted but still provide him such flexibility. Now it is, of course, entirely the genius of Miyazaki which made great use of the opportunity to churn out all those classics.

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The "new Miyazaki" label is always a bit of an issue in itself, because what does it indicate? The same popularity? The same critical success? The same style? Maybe a bit of everything?

I'm glad you chose the "frontrunners" question as the main theme, since that leaves more options for suggesting people that aren't necessarily all that similar to Miyazaki. I think some of the directors mentioned are actually very good, but if they're to meet the same criteria as Miyazaki they'll inevitably be disappointing.

Theowne mentioned Mai Mai Miracle, which I enjoyed too. I don't know much about the director, but I'd be interested to see more.

Honestly, I'm not exactly up-to-date when it comes to feature film anime. I tend to focus on series nowadays. And I think if you want to find some "frontrunners", it might be worth considering TV too, since feature film anime can be too risky for most studios that don't have the power of names like Miyazaki and Takahata. TV directors also lack the consistency of Miyazaki, but then they don't have the luxury of getting to spend several years to make a one-off feature film


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I was just thinking about TV series. The problem I see with that is the need to appeal to an even more mass audience with often the profits dependent on DVD sales and music CD sales. To me that makes TV series even less likely to produce "art" if that's what we are discussing.

If anyone can suggest TV series in the last, oh, say, 10 years that are really significant I'd be keen to watch them!


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I was thinking of the same issue, which is why I made the point about consistency. Because of the different demands of producing TV series, I think there are two kinds of good directors.

One kind is the ones that embark on big new projects that are critical if not financial successes, but there are long gaps between them. I'm thinking of directors like Shinichiro Watanabe (Cowboy Bebop, Space Dandy) and Kunihiko Ikuhara (Utena, Penguindrum). Masaaki Yuasa (The Tatami Galaxy, Ping Pong) seems to have a similar reputation, but I'm not as familiar with his work.

The other kind works more prolifically, but their more successful projects also have a broader appeal, and they keep things rolling along in between with some safe options/duds. In this case I'm thinking of the likes of Akiyuki Shinbo (Monogatari, Madoka Magica) and Hiroyuki Imaishi (Gurren Lagann, Kill la Kill). Maybe it's coincidence, but these two are also closely tied to particular studios, so that's a reason for them to forgo consistent high quality in favour of staying afloat.

As for recommending recent "significant" shows... it's a bit hard to do. A lot of what we look back on as significant seems that way because it's stood the test of time. I've certainly enjoyed many recent series, but I'm not sure how willing I am to say "yes, this will be a classic in years to come." Then again, for each of those directors I've mentioned at least one series that is from the last ten years, so that could be a starting point if you want to give them a shot.


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what makes great people? i dont think if there is any answer to it. People of different period act and think differently so it is hardly logical to compare one with other.

As front-runners of anime, i dont know if any of them(mokoto shinkai and mamoru hosada) are actually great. They are entertaining for sure. Shinkai has much greater possibility of producing lasting art cause the last part of his film 5 centimeter per second grasps some of harsh reality of our life that today we exhaust ourselves for something not very worthy( job/education/status/power), thus loose somethings very important(love/compassion/humanity/people).

Hosada's works are practically not very serious, they are entertaining but there is no message. i agree with arren and saddle that consistency is infact an issue. however i can not say both kinds are good director. one is good director and other is popular director. and the ones who are both are great directors. As for names, I dont know much about them( anime directors) because i have not seen much anime like the people who have already commented. so i wont comment about them.

But your question

quote:
Who are the directorial frontrunners in the anime community? Who could possibly fill the gap that Miyazaki and Takahata will leave behind them when they inevitably pass on?


got me thinking, is there such a gap in anime(not animation). I dont think so. When those people started working, anime or animation as a industry was much different. They popularized the high quality animation movie idea which is now several billion dollar industry each year. But anime is definitely a niche. it was then too. But they proved that anime could be overreaching. It is a really difficult task. But if you carefully examine you will see that their target audience is completely different. and most of the great anime shows or movies were not popular in their release time. So i dont think there is any audience for these kind of anime. if there was Studio Ghibli would never have been closed. It was a financial decision. I dont think we really want to watch anime like those As far as i know no current director will be able of produce something like Akira, GITS, Nausicaa or Totoro. Just because no one will watch them. Hayao Miyazaki and Isao Takahata gambled everything for ghibli concept. Unless there is such people there wont be such anime. Isao Takahata said in a documentary To make great films great people are needed, and great people are not born everyday.

You can see that in every kind of art. As a matter of fact several days ago i asked the same question why art people can not leave a successor.

i dont think we should consider studio ghibli work as anime only, cause it drastically reduces the scope of it. If you broad your search i think there are many animators who will make great animations in coming years.


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Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

Post last edited by saviour2012 on 05.15.2016, 02:48 PM.

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paperbullet
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
If anyone can suggest TV series in the last, oh, say, 10 years that are really significant I'd be keen to watch them!



First and foremost, I'd suggest "Mushi-shi". Made in 2006, it's about a man travelling the countryside and helping people afflicted by "mushi" - sorts of proto-animal lifeforms that cause strange and interesting existential diseases. Serene and therapeutic while also engaging the mind.

I'm consistently surprised when I think that such a laid-back and thoughtful series is as popular as it is. The manga is one of the top ten bestsellers in Japan and the anime has two seasons and counting. I wouldn't miss it.

I also enjoyed "Parasyte", but that's an entirely different kind of series - more action-packed. Similar to "Tokyo Ghoul", if you've seen/heard of that.

quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
Hosada's works are practically not very serious, they are entertaining but there is no message.


Have you seen "Wolf Children"? I felt that the exploration of family relationships and personal growth in that film was excellent.

- - -

Yes, consistency is an issue. I guess art takes time. Miyazaki-san was able to turn out masterpieces so quickly and so well... Hosoda and Shinkai can match his rate, but their quality still needs improvement before they can reach him.

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quote:
Originally posted by paperbullet
Have you seen "Wolf Children"? I felt that the exploration of family relationships and personal growth in that film was excellent.

- - -

Yes, consistency is an issue. I guess art takes time. Miyazaki-san was able to turn out masterpieces so quickly and so well... Hosoda and Shinkai can match his rate, but their quality still needs improvement before they can reach him.



i have not seen it, somehow the cover art makes me uncomfortable(the idea). i will probably watch it someday

and another point i think can come to discussion that is when hayao miyazaki started many techniques were new, in a mature industry it is hard to innovate, that may be a reason why new animators can not keep up age by age basis


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Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

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This recent interview with Mamoru Oshii has him saying he no longer wants to make anime, preferring live-action films. That's a shame.

The reasons he gives are pertinent to our discussion as well.

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Saddletank
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On the flip side of that the anime industry of the 80s and 90s worked their employees to the bone with extreme workloads and very long anti-social hours. In some ways I think it is understandable that modern young artists want a change in that working style.

Computer technician has been added to the job title of artist now and while a studio can now produce beautiful artwork via computers you no longer see the gorgeous backgrounds of Miyazaki's early career.

In some ways one could say that Oshii is a dinosaur unable to adapt to a new environment. The new methods of making anime are here to stay and will only change more and more away from the traditional hand-drawn days. The skills of a director must now be businessman, accountant and a half dozen other disciplines to produce something individual and fresh.


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I think in some ways I agree with your final paragraph, Saddles. I kind of thought this when I first looked at that link too, but I felt it came across as a bit of a "young people these days don't understand the value of hard work" idea.

It's the kind of thing we tend to associate with grumpy old men, but when Oshii (or indeed Miyazaki) says it people take it so seriously. But really, they kind of are grumpy old men. Things have always been changing, but now it's changed too much and they don't get it anymore.


Incidentally, I learnt yesterday that the studio Manglobe (known for unusual shows like Samurai Champloo and Michiko and Hatchin, among others) went bankrupt last October. There's been a lot of talk here about creative directors with big ideas, but it goes to show that cool ideas aren't enough to stay afloat.


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Saviour would agree with the idea that you need to sell a lot of DVDs and OST CDs to make money out of anime, and that means pandering to the masses which in turn means less risky subject matter which down the line usually also means less inventive, cool and artsy shows.

In the same way that you will never again see a movie made like Ben Hur was, or El Cid, today you are never going to see anime made the way Akira or Nausicaa were. In one way it is sad to see things change, but in other ways those in the industry and their customers have driven those changes.


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You're right that it's the same in other industries too. I don't think it's something we have to be terribly sad about though. It means some things are different from before, but there's still potential to create things that are great, if you don't go in expecting it all to be like it was in the 70s and 80s.

Before when I was talking about TV directors, I mentioned that there are ones that have the occasional dud, or they might make series that happen to be very merchandisable (even if they're still very good). Not everything they make will be a masterpiece... but that's okay. Seek out what's good and don't be too disheartened by what isn't.


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I understand your idea arren but i cant think it is a good thing.

As student of computer science, i have a great admiration for all these fields it has created, practically everything is touched by it.

But it seems to me that we are not trying hard enough. Think of it like this we did our moon landing with much less computational resource than in our mobile phones. but today with so much resource and possibilities what have we have achieved. I am specially concerned about our generation(85 to 2005)(the people oshii also said). Most people waste time and a large part of it, its like procrastination has become a part of our life, technology has enabled easy earning but it at the same time has hindered progress. In the early 1900 most innovations were from individuals, now hardly any is from individuals. I think the is thrive for doing something has lessened much. I dont think we are only to blame. Our century has made the billionaires and entrepreneurs as our idol. I see most teens or young adults think they are the real heroes. Danis Ritchie invented C language, wrote significant part of unix os but steve jobs death is much more appreciated although he(jobs) did not contribute to society at all( i mean really, with fact).

So practically it all comes down to something as saddle summarized today anything i mean anything has to be marketable, its success depends on that. Hayao Miyazaki and some exceptional few happen to have that ability that theirs works were great and at the same time marketable. But i think it takes great initiative, i think i said once before that they bet on their career for that.

Such people are hard to find. Even if they are they will be so much commented on by other that their self confidence will just vapor away.

That being said i agree with arren that there is potential to create things or innovate things for something great. Question is when will our generation get that breakthrough. To make it more clear i think you know that necessity is the mother of invention. The First and Second World War was such a thing in the (1920 - 1960) period. Later it was the Cold War (1960 - 1990) . Currently there is no such crisis so we are just following along the course of previous generation. Some possibilities are Global Warming, Massive Population, Full Robot Production Facility(this one is very scary, already implemented in many chinese factories) and Artificial Robot workers( as in smart car, smart home) in offices. These crisis will make us to be creative cause all the easy jobs will be gone( like clerk, accountant, waiters etc etc). Until then it is unlikely that our generation will try to do anything innovative. I should stop. I dont write these things in the forum nowadays cause its depressing.

So we all should just follow this motto that Watch everything but only take the good things from it or something arren said Seek out what's good and don't be too disheartened by what isn't. thanks

i am still looking for something awesome(anything thats good for the human race) happening in my lifetime, dont know if its going to happen or not.



quote:
Computer technician has been added to the job title of artist now and while a studio can now produce beautiful artwork via computers you no longer see the gorgeous backgrounds of Miyazaki's early career.


he is an artist.(i am not sure, do you mean that technical knowledge in computer is needed now to be a artist?) I can do everything he can do in the software but i dont have the mindset or the artistic thinking. And it is similarly hard or in some cases harder than paper drawing. the only benefit is you dont need to repeat the same drawing over and over again. That saves time and thus money. And they can create that kind of background. Their producer wont let them as they need to pay them at hourly rate


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Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

Post last edited by saviour2012 on 05.31.2016, 03:02 PM.

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