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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend




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quote:
Originally posted by husky51
I see myself as a naturist rather than a nurturist... I would tend to keep my same opinions, etc...

Lawl, a naturist is a person who doesn't wear clothes, Husky...


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04.24.2012, 08:13 AM Saddletank is offline   Profile for Saddletank Add Saddletank to your buddy list Send an Email to Saddletank
Saddletank
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quote:
Originally posted by Mushka
Sometimes not telling a lie conflicts with not breaking a promise -- for example, if I promise a friend to keep some information secret, and then later I am asked for that information, I have to either break my promise, lie, or decline to answer. In many circumstances, declining to answer is so conspicuous that doing so betrays the secret I had promised to keep.

There's also the classic case of a person running away from a serial killer. The killer, knife in hand, stops to ask you "which way did he go?", and you are faced again with lying, telling the truth, or declining to answer. In this case declining to answer could put you in significant danger.


Basically, as a person matures, rules accepted without question like "lying is wrong" and "breaking promises is wrong" are replaced with the realization that people have brains and can use them to figure out what's right and wrong in non-trivial situations.

Posts like these are why I adore you! Welcome back to the Tavern, Mush.

P.S. we've known each other a while now, so can I call you Mush?


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Post last edited by Saddletank on 04.24.2012, 08:17 AM.

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Wikidkid101
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quote:
Originally posted by Mushka
Sometimes not telling a lie conflicts with not breaking a promise -- for example, if I promise a friend to keep some information secret, and then later I am asked for that information, I have to either break my promise, lie, or decline to answer. In many circumstances, declining to answer is so conspicuous that doing so betrays the secret I had promised to keep.

There's also the classic case of a person running away from a serial killer. The killer, knife in hand, stops to ask you "which way did he go?", and you are faced again with lying, telling the truth, or declining to answer. In this case declining to answer could put you in significant danger.


Basically, as a person matures, rules accepted without question like "lying is wrong" and "breaking promises is wrong" are replaced with the realization that people have brains and can use them to figure out what's right and wrong in non-trivial situations.



I agree completely, I believe we should adapt to what a situation demands. Whats right and what is wrong has to sometimes be put aside for the greater good, if that makes sense, I know that sounds extremely utilitarianist but that is what I believe, if you went around for the whole of your life believing everything your parents or respected elders told you situations such as mushka has explained could be very awkward and as a teenager the first example is very common. So in short I agree.

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husky51
The Old Guy




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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
quote:
Originally posted by husky51
I see myself as a naturist rather than a nurturist... I would tend to keep my same opinions, etc...

Lawl, a naturist is a person who doesn't wear clothes, Husky...



I was using the term as i understood Roar to be using it, as a natural person, however, I HAVE gone the way of your quote, but that is another story NOT for here... lol


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Wikidkid101
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quote:
Originally posted by husky51
quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
quote:
Originally posted by husky51
I see myself as a naturist rather than a nurturist... I would tend to keep my same opinions, etc...

Lawl, a naturist is a person who doesn't wear clothes, Husky...



I was using the term as i understood Roar to be using it, as a natural person, however, I HAVE gone the way of your quote, but that is another story NOT for here... lol



Lol!!! How funny! A bit disturbing but funny! Although I am somewhat interested in the story! I hope that doesn't make me sound weird

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husky51
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not disturbing, just being at a special beach and some that were not special... and a couple of other activities...

Ya gotta remember that in the 60's and 70's a lot of us young (then ) people enjoyed our freedom to do things differently from the 'OLD' people...

Let me put it this way... I don't regret anything that I've done in my young adulthood that were against society's norm. I hurt no others nor myself and that included future offspring of my own...

I neither endorsed nor proposed these activities to my own children, but (I found out later) they partook of many of them on their own, both male and female.

I'm saying nothing further on this subject... This is not the proper forum...


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Post last edited by husky51 on 04.25.2012, 10:04 PM.

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Roarkiller
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
P.S. we've known each other a while now, so can I call you Mush?

Suddenly I have images of siberian huskies pulling sleighs in my head.

<-- what the heck is this suppose to be, seriously?!

quote:
Originally posted by Mushka
Sometimes not telling a lie conflicts with not breaking a promise -- for example, if I promise a friend to keep some information secret, and then later I am asked for that information, I have to either break my promise, lie, or decline to answer. In many circumstances, declining to answer is so conspicuous that doing so betrays the secret I had promised to keep.

There's also the classic case of a person running away from a serial killer. The killer, knife in hand, stops to ask you "which way did he go?", and you are faced again with lying, telling the truth, or declining to answer. In this case declining to answer could put you in significant danger.


Basically, as a person matures, rules accepted without question like "lying is wrong" and "breaking promises is wrong" are replaced with the realization that people have brains and can use them to figure out what's right and wrong in non-trivial situations.

I don't see why declining to answer is a bad thing. In both cases, I can think of at least two other ways, both leading to the non-answer route, that betrays no one and revealing nothing.

And they're practical. Because I've done them countless times.


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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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husky51
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a baby sucking on a pacifier...


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Mush
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quote:
Posts like these are why I adore you! Welcome back to the Tavern, Mush.
Mush... I like it!

Probably if not for Roarkiller I'd just be known as that person who's always stressed and tired, instead of that person who always rants about things.

quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
I don't see why declining to answer is a bad thing. In both cases, I can think of at least two other ways, both leading to the non-answer route, that betrays no one and revealing nothing.

And they're practical. Because I've done them countless times.


So here's the circumstance: A friend of yours has recently started dating a man from a different religious/ethnic group. She loves him, but is worried about violent reprisals from her family if she is found out. She tells you that she feels threatened, especially by her uncle who has a history of domestic violence, some shady affiliations, and has previously spent time in prison. She hasn't told anyone else, because she knows that her family doesn't approve. As soon as she can, she's planning to run away to a different city with her boyfriend.

One day when you go to meet with her, you're confronted by her uncle instead. He tells you he's seen her leaving school together with this man. He says that he knows she confides in you, and looking you in the eye, he asks you whether the two of them are in a relationship.


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husky51
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Personally, I would plead ignorance and then warn the girl about the uncle's quesstions as soon as possible.

And pleading ignorance is a lie, isn't it...


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Roarkiller
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I would tell him that if this is a threat, the policeman is just a call away.

Worked before against a storekeeper once


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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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Mush
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@Roar - Mmkay, he tells you he's not threatening anyone.

Remember that he clearly suspects that something is going on, so if you do nothing to deflect his suspicions, you're quite possibly putting your friend at risk. Is that ethical?

@husky - Yeah, pleading ignorance is a lie, because you do know the truth.


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Post last edited by Mush on 04.25.2012, 06:08 AM.

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Saddletank
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I don't see the uncle's actions as a threat either. Its not a matter for the police so far since there's no crime.

quote:
Originally posted by Mushka
Probably if not for Roarkiller I'd just be known as that person who's always stressed and tired, instead of that person who always rants about things.
I think you'd be known as a pretty good role-player too


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Post last edited by Saddletank on 04.25.2012, 08:45 AM.

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Roarkiller
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Lol, you do realize that quite a few of us still have our Isakaya avatars still on? Wanna bring it back alive?

@Mushka: You already know his jail history. Bring it up and tell him you can't trust anything he says. Walk off and ignore him. Done.

Next!

On topic, this is a rather interesting read:
http://hoydenabouttown.com/20120412.1160...on-white-crime/

EDIT: And another link related to the Zimmerman case:
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_sta...r_ground_fails/

Horrible discrimination in that McNeil-Ebb case.


__________________
I am me.
I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.

Roarkiller.net
Isakaya High RPG Site

quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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Mush
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Well done, you've avoided any harm coming to yourself. I hope your friend is so lucky.



If you're not convinced, it's always possible to dream up other scenarios. But the point of the exercise is that the fundamental root of ethics has never been a prescribed code of conduct, but rather a set of moral values. It's not really enough to robotically obey rules like always do A and B, and never C (unless D), and I will be ethical. Life isn't always so clear-cut, those rules can sometimes be thrown into mutual conflict with each other, and anyway it's not a very convincing form of ethics. A stronger kind of ethics look something more like X and Y are important, Z is not; how can I act in keeping with this, in order to be ethical?


(I wouldn't be opposed... I think we might be missing a few key characters though. Saddles mentioned that Na-chan is kind of hard to replace)


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Post last edited by Mush on 04.25.2012, 09:30 PM.

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husky51
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@Roar...

In the first instance, I don't accept this person's statistics out of hand. I don't know that these stats are accurate and would have to see corraborating information before I would accept them. Anyone can just pick numbers out of thin air and a great number of people will accept them without thinking about it. I won't.
-------------------------------------------

In the second instance, Georgia (along with Alabama and Mississippi) were strong anti-Black states even after the 1960's and unfortunately, a lot of people still share this racial animosity. I can't understand why the State Court held the man's to be sentence to be valid, but an appeal to the US Supreme Court would be his next step, in my mind.

Again, in this case, I don't know all of the info about the case and am only reading one side of it. Was there other mitigating circumstances? I don't know.

---------------------------------------------------------

A beloved aunt is ailing and asks you how she looks. In reality she looks like she is on her death bed. but do you tell her that she looks fine (or other words to that effect) and ease her mind or do you tell her the truth?

just an example... I know what I would do. lie like hell...

Back in 1975, a woman who was like a second mother to me died of lung cancer and my last visit with her was just three weeks before she died. We all knew that she was terminal, including her, and accepted that, but I still spoke with her as though she was going on with her life, mainly because it seemed to make her feel better.


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husky51
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saddletank
P.S. we've known each other a while now, so can I call you Mush?

Suddenly I have images of siberian huskies pulling sleighs in my head.
quote:
Originally posted by Mushka



Did someone mention Siberian Huskies??? Here's me with a buddy of mine... Wanna play???



PLEEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Rossdude
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Today i will eat Ramen for lunch. 今日はラメンの日です!!!

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husky51
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3 am, can't sleep or some reason, ramen sounds like a good idea...


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Rossdude
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It was a good idea. A very fine ramen lunch indeed.

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