I hear you, I'm done.

I did originally contribute a bit to the subject. So, back on topic. Do you, as well, find the statement of the wire world always being to be a great loop hole? Or something not to be over-analyzed?

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Im just gonna pop in here for sec

just finished watchign the first episode, and it was very interesting, i love the style and im gonna definitly watch this one through, thanks for the recommendation Arren18

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The truth had to be seen. Anything else was a story, entertaining but more embroidered fib then crude, shapeless fact. ~Dave Eggers

No problem sanfan, I'm glad you liked it. I really need to get round to seeing more than the first two episodes...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Seiji
There truly are a lot of fascinating things to talk about in Paranoia Agent. Why don't you start a thread on it?

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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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I've watched SEL over the last 4 or 5 days. And I am. Just. Completely. Blown. Away. This is easily the oddest deepest anime I've yet watched. I felt like I was following it until about episode 9 or 10 and then I was left behind. The ending I am simply scratching my head about.

I cried at the end when I don't think I should have - surely its a positive, hopeful ending. Isn't it? Or...? Hmmm.

Its beautiful to watch, the artwork is stunning, the music great, the directing and editing is pretty slick, the storyline comes at you disjointedly from several directions, the character of Lain is hauntingly sweet and innocent... so vulnerable, her father is sinister, her mother spews evil with just her eyes... the wierdness goes on...

But so much weird stuff goes down that is unexplained, or just a red herring - the degradeable nanotechnology accelerator for example - wtf? It only gets mentioned once. And Lains sister who turns into a zombie - why?

I'm lost. Help!

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Im a little lost to, i still have to finish the series, the 2nd runthrough of evangleion kinda interupted this one. it is really interesting of all the different working, i dont understand it entirely so im sure roarkiller has seen it and can clear up anything.

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The truth had to be seen. Anything else was a story, entertaining but more embroidered fib then crude, shapeless fact. ~Dave Eggers

SEL is in my top 3 mst confusing anime list.

So... don't get your hopes up too much.

*SPOILERS*

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This is what I understand about the series, as in the BARE facts. Lain isn't real. She isn't a real person. Put simply, the advancement in technology in that time is such that reality and virtual is already no longer separated by cyberspace; it has gone into a grey area. To be more precise, a VERY big grey area.

Years since I saw it, but under my understanding, Lain was... I dunno, a program prototype or something. Even her family wasn't real. I think this was cleared up in the episode where she was talking to "herself" about who her parents really were, and questioning her own existence.

Her sister isn't a zombie. More like she started to realize that there was something wrong going on, and she had tried to unravel the mystery. Which I'm guessing didn't go down to well with the higher-ups, and got "replaced". I think that part should be clear in that episode, the way she disappeared like that.

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*END SPOILERS*

Be reminded that it's been years since I saw it, and that was also when my japanese was really bad, and the subs was horribly inaccurate (shockingly, it was an OFFICIAL local release). I have a fansub though, might rewatch it.

Anyway, what confused me about the anime was the cliffhangers. Or rather, the way everything was put in such a sublime way, you never know if you really understood what was going on or not. Situations and explanations were also put forth in a rather abstract way, further adding to the confusion.

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I am Roarkiller.
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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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I was so lost at the end I am watching it again. I'll make notes this time and get back to you in a few days

SPOILERS
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But yes, Roar, agreed, she's not real and is a program. I'm up to speed on that. I'm just trying to work out why she was put(*) in the real world, and the importance of the Knights and the guy who thought he was God. Or a god. For about an episode and a half her relationship with that god figure (the guy who went under the train and who we see wearing the blue bandages) almost led me to think of him as the Christian God (the Father) and her as the Son (Christ) - she being originally with him in the Wired and sent to earth as a person. When this idea came to me everything made sense for a while but that concept seemed to be wrong too in the end, almost as that were another red herring.

I'm not sure I understand that her family were not real. Clearly they are in the know about her because of conversations she has with her father. He is a part of the 'experiment' and has been observing her growth (we know its been 13 years because he says at the end that he grew to love her), which is why his betrayal of her is so heartbreaking. Her mother is just plain odd. And her sister, these two may be innocent humans who get to learn the wrong things, may jeopardise the experiment and so are manipulated, with nasty side effects - they both become damaged and exhibit odd behaviour.

But I think all three really are human because at the end when time is reset, the father exhibits trace memories of Lain (looking at the empty dinner chair and wondering if someone should be there). If he were simply a piece of software, that trace memory would not exist.

Once Lain is reset and returns fully to the Wired at the very end I'm puzzled as to why her earthly persona reappears in the world, and why Arisu sees her and vaguely remembers her.

And as you say, lots and lots of things simply not explained or rather developed as sub-plots to a point and left hanging.

(*) she must have been planted because at the start her real world persona has no connection to the Wired and must learn her way (back?) into it.

I think the experiment of the title is her being planted in the world, presumably to merge the Wired and the world into one seamless perfectly communicating whole. That was so uncannily like the Third Impact resolution of humanity in NGE that I felt quite odd watching the same ideas in another anime.

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Spoilers...all of what I have to say are spoilers...

There are many ways to interpret the show...some points...

Lain's family does exist, they just aren't really her family; they are actors. Lain's sister went crazy because the knights took over her mind so that they could watch Lain. The man who thinks that he is god helped develop the technology that is combining the two worlds. It isn't unreasonable even still to see lain as a christ figure. She plays the same roles, and near the end of the series, is seated at a table in the sky with someone who looks like her hired father, not because they are the same person, but rather so that we can infer that this person is lain's real father(aka the real god of the wired). Lain left some very light memories for both her father and Arisu, because she liked the two of them best. There is a notion at one point that the same company that created Lain and the false god also had perfected the human genome. A lot of people who are seen at the end of the series died during the course of it. It is possible that Lain used this technology to rebuild them. Though, it is also possible that they don't really have bodies anymore, but that Lain has made them and everybody else to believe that they do, since the two worlds are still connected. Lain was put in the real world because she was discovered by the false god, forget his name, who perceived her as a threat. It is difficult to bring everything together in this series, and ultimately, certain things will be left unexplained. Personally I see Lain as a god(or something like it) rather than a program...then again, a god of information mind as well be a program...hmm...

Those are just some random points. If you want to better understand SEL and the theories that attempt to explain it, go to this site, and read it.


www.cjas.org/~leng/lain.htm

Post last edited by Seiji on 02.22.2007, 11:35 PM.

@Saddle: "Real" here means them not being her true parents. Step-parents wouldn't be real parents, but they still exist, don't they?

Double meaning. Oh, the wonders of the English language.

I'll watch SEL again if you want me to explain everything in great detail. But I just bought Infinite Ryvius, and I need to finish my friend's collection he loaned me, so...

IMO it's so much easier to explain the intricacies of Paranoia Agent, but we'll save that for another day when I can REALLY sit down and watch it again. With a psychologist at my side, just in case.

Btw, for those interested, my top 3 most confusing anime, in no particular order: Paranoia Agent (literally overflowing with cryptic messages), SEL (extremely ambiguous representations) and FLCL (essence of story hidden behind gag humour and abstract non-understandable storyline).

Others in my list include Hack//sign... well, that's all I can remember, but yeah. I've watched a pretty fair amount of strange anime.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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Post last edited by Roarkiller on 02.23.2007, 06:23 AM.

@Seiji. Thanks. I'm pleased my Christ figure thinking wasn't waaaay off target. I thought there had to be a good solid fansite out there, will soak that one up this weekend.

As a sidenote, I did notice the cross symbol in her hair right at the very beginning and thought. "Hm, a cross, is that relevant?" and later, in one of her early trips into the Wired she stands on a huge cross. I thought "No, that's so obivous" it was like all the cross signs in NGE, so I discounted it. But perhaps it wasn't completely irrelevant.

@Roar, when you get to re-watch it, let me know and we'll get together and talk more about this series with which I am completely enthralled right now. Things like GITS and Bebop are nice to watch but I do personally prefer a good deep story I can get my teeth into. Esp when it has such a vulnerable delicious heroine as Lain.

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Post last edited by Saddletank on 02.23.2007, 07:05 PM.

Not my kind of girl, frankly. She looks more lost deranged than lost pitiful. Especially when she goes into Lain Wired mode.

Another to add to the list, though not really all that confusing, but still a damn deep story, is Key The Metal Idol. Highlight of the show is the ending when Key sings her lullaby.

__________________
I am me.
I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.

Roarkiller.net
Isakaya High RPG Site

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

---

Only today I learned that the director Ryūtarō Nakamura passed away from cancer of the pancreas on 29 June.

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Post last edited by Saddletank on 09.25.2013, 07:30 PM.