Ghibli Tavern - Question about the ending of Whisper of the heart

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i have the japanese version with subs too.

watched it too.

will watch it again too.

LOL

lets sum it up

I am saying that Just before the graduation ceremony seiji was offered to go to cremona for two month and prove that he was good enough violin maker. So he went to cremona and returned back after two month. after coming he said that his master said he was not great but can be. So he will go to high school and then go to cremona again to persue his carrier.

the talk about graduation ceremony happened in suzuku's friends house[her friend said that if he goes to cremona for 10 years then she will practically never see him]. but in english version he actually stayed to complete high school[ cause he did not do very well just like suzuku]. are you saying he did not complete his high school.

another thing suzuku wrote the story but it was cliche so she will also go to high school[to learn more about writing] and announce that to her mother.

so to me everything fits in the blocks. Both of them wants to do things differently and tries to find out if they have merit. they find out they both have merit but they need to learn more to become great.

You are saying he went to cremona and then returned back for the graduation ceremony and then goes to cremona again.

.

am i right?actually your synopsis is not fully understood by me so please explain it a little bit elaborately.

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08.14.2012, 02:09 PM

Registration Date: 04.24.06
Location: Oklahoma City - Seattle - Tokyo
Posts: 406

quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
i have the japanese version with subs too.

watched it too.

will watch it again too.

LOL

lets sum it up

I am saying that Just before the graduation ceremony seiji was offered to go to cremona for two month and prove that he was good enough violin maker. So he went to cremona and returned back after two month. after coming he said that his master said he was not great but can be. So he will go to high school and then go to cremona again to persue his carrier.

the talk about graduation ceremony happened in suzuku's friends house[her friend said that if he goes to cremona for 10 years then she will practically never see him]. but in english version he actually stayed to complete high school[ cause he did not do very well just like suzuku]. are you saying he did not complete his high school.

another thing suzuku wrote the story but it was cliche so she will also go to high school[to learn more about writing] and announce that to her mother.

so to me everything fits in the blocks. Both of them wants to do things differently and tries to find out if they have merit. they find out they both have merit but they need to learn more to become great.

You are saying he went to cremona and then returned back for the graduation ceremony and then goes to cremona again.

.

am i right?actually your synopsis is not fully understood by me so please explain it a little bit elaborately.

On your version, what language are your subtitles written in? They sound like subtitles written for those who can't hear or are not translations, but what are called, "dubtitles." Kiki's Delivery Service had dubtitles.

I believe I recall the English subtitles in the American Whisper of the Heart release were a reasonable translation of the Japanese dialog--though not quite as good as a Chinese pirated version I saw. For the synopsis,

1. Seiji went to Cremona briefly to see if he was good enough.

2. He was accepted and was allowed to go. This would mean that he would not be attending high school.

3. As he was going to be gone for several years and would be leaving soon, he asked her to marry him.

4. Shizuku accepted.

I think the big departure from the western idea was his not going to high school. High school is not mandatory in Japan and, for those who are preparing for a job skill, may prove to be a waste of time. Also, many middle school students who want to attend a prestigious college apply to prestigious high schools and find out their test scores are not high enough. Many of them will skip their first year of high school to study for entrance exams.

Even in Seiji's case, he would be getting an academic education as well as learning how to make violins--so he wouldn't be returning to Japan uneducated or illiterate.

The point here is that the Japanese version will have Seiji living thousands of kilometers away from Shizuku and she will reach marrying age before he returns. He needed to propose. In the English version, he will be going to high school and there's no reason to press her for marriage at that age.

08.14.2012, 03:39 PM

Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12806

This is the reason that I prefer the original Japanese with the subtitles rather than the dubs...

True, the translation is sometimes off, direct translation for one language to another is frequently impossible, but I get the 'meaning' of the exchange. In dubbing, the translation frequently isn't, just wording put in to relate with the expected audience that will be watching.

@dballred..
good to see you lurking around... You've been here longer than I have and I always enjoy your comments. I still retain a few words after 40+ yrs since I was in Japan. Even tho Navy, my step-dad was on the same ship and the whole family ws there. I had to commute to and from work, lol. I had more freedom to travel around in the countryside than most sailors over there. I loved it!

edit:
I think this is probably why I like Ghibli so much. It reminds me of the Japan that I knew a little bit of...

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Post last edited by husky51 on 08.14.2012, 04:24 PM.

08.14.2012, 04:14 PM

Registration Date: 04.24.06
Location: Oklahoma City - Seattle - Tokyo
Posts: 406

quote:
Originally posted by husky51
This is the reason that I prefer the original Japanese with the subtitles rather than the dubs...

True, the translation is sometimes off, direct translation for one language to another is frequently impossible, but I get the 'meaning' of the exchange. In dubbing, the translation frequently isn't, just wording put in to relate with the expected audience that will be watching.

@dballred..
good to see you lurking around... You've been here longer than I have and I always enjoy your comments. I still retain a few words after 40+ yrs since I was in Japan. Even tho Navy, my step-dad was on the same ship and the whole family ws there. I had to commute to and from work, lol. I had more freedom to travel around in the countryside than most sailors over there. I loved it!

edit:
I think this is probably why I like Ghibli so much. It reminds me of the Japan that I knew a little bit of...

Of the Ghibli films, this one connects me most to the real Japan--mainly because of the '90s time frame. The imagery at the beginning of the film is perfect: The trains in the distance, the Tama River, the bridges crossing it, the flies gathering around the fluorescent lights in the "Danchi" (Government housing) stairwell, the orderly clutter in the apartment (books and papers stacked along the wall,etc), and even the domestic dialog between the family members.

Had I grown up in Japan, I surely would have connected to the imagery in Totoro or Poppy Hill just as well. Studio Ghibli pays incredible attention to detail.

08.14.2012, 05:08 PM

Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
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Yes, as I've said before in here, I met a friend on the train one day whose family owned a rice farm just outside of Tokyo. My family was invited to spend the weekend there and, except for the Totoro house being 2-story, it was much the same as that one, with the rice paper walls. Also, the bath was gas heated, not wood...

After Sat evening dinner, the men all went into the TV room and watched a Japanese baseball game and drank hot sake and beer and munched on dried octopus, as I recall...

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08.14.2012, 05:42 PM

Registration Date: 02.24.12
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quote:
Originally posted by dballred
On your version, what language are your subtitles written in? They sound like subtitles written for those who can't hear or are not translations, but what are called, "dubtitles." Kiki's Delivery Service had dubtitles.

I believe I recall the English subtitles in the American Whisper of the Heart release were a reasonable translation of the Japanese dialog--though not quite as good as a Chinese pirated version I saw. For the synopsis,

1. Seiji went to Cremona briefly to see if he was good enough.

2. He was accepted and was allowed to go. This would mean that he would not be attending high school.

3. As he was going to be gone for several years and would be leaving soon, he asked her to marry him.

4. Shizuku accepted.

I think the big departure from the western idea was his not going to high school. High school is not mandatory in Japan and, for those who are preparing for a job skill, may prove to be a waste of time. Also, many middle school students who want to attend a prestigious college apply to prestigious high schools and find out their test scores are not high enough. Many of them will skip their first year of high school to study for entrance exams.

Even in Seiji's case, he would be getting an academic education as well as learning how to make violins--so he wouldn't be returning to Japan uneducated or illiterate.

The point here is that the Japanese version will have Seiji living thousands of kilometers away from Shizuku and she will reach marrying age before he returns. He needed to propose. In the English version, he will be going to high school and there's no reason to press her for marriage at that age.

i did not said the story from subs i told it from dubs actually

i will watch it in subs and will download all the available subs also will download the japanese scripts too[then use super magic google translate tool ]

cause we should file a case against disney for doing fraud with us. As i understood the situation it is perfectly right to make proposal . The whole theme of the story changes if seiji does not attend high school. What about suzuku did seiji's grandfather told her she is a great writer cause in disney's dub he was told that she had merit but need to polish it to shine.

and what do you mean by "This would mean that he would not be attending high school." i guess you are not sure about this part. in english dub although he was accepted he was not of the appropriate age to learn.

however in japan do people start to take professional training in 14.In my country no one who attend lower secondary school does. they actually go for secondary and higher secondary.

but the people who do not attend or can not attend[mostly because of poverty] start professional training in 12 and so on.

it is quite interesting that in japan little teens start to think about their carrier very very early.

edit: i can relate myself to the most ghibli movies. even nausicaa and mononoke. specially totoro. they are set in the time that is quite the same in my country now. however nausicaa and mononoke is for different reason though.

Post last edited by saviour2012 on 08.14.2012, 06:54 PM.

08.14.2012, 06:45 PM

Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
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saviour quote:
"What about suzuku* did seiji's grandfather told her she is a great writer cause in disney's dub he was told that she had merit but need to polish it to shine."

*Shizuku (my edit)

-----------------------------------------

I cannot speak for the actual Japanese spoken because I am not fluent is any way, darn it. However, in the subtitled version that I watch occasionally, Grandfather tells her that yes, she has merit, but needs to improve. That is why he gave her the stone with the gem inside. To remind her that she is an 'unpolished gem' and needs to 'polish' her skill with more training (ie, education in her art)

From the subs and the actions of the characters, I believe that the subs gave the correct meaning in that scene...

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Post last edited by husky51 on 08.14.2012, 07:26 PM.

08.14.2012, 07:22 PM

Calforsale
Totoro

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I wish i had the subbed version, alas i only have the disney dubbed. I have seen the subbed version and i prefer it too.

Its nice hearing them sing country road in japanese too haha

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Post last edited by Calforsale on 08.14.2012, 10:54 PM.

08.14.2012, 10:54 PM

Registration Date: 04.24.06
Location: Oklahoma City - Seattle - Tokyo
Posts: 406

quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012

i did not said the story from subs i told it from dubs actually

i will watch it in subs and will download all the available subs also will download the japanese scripts too[then use super magic google translate tool ]

cause we should file a case against disney for doing fraud with us. As i understood the situation it is perfectly right to make proposal . The whole theme of the story changes if seiji does not attend high school. What about suzuku did seiji's grandfather told her she is a great writer cause in disney's dub he was told that she had merit but need to polish it to shine.

and what do you mean by "This would mean that he would not be attending high school." i guess you are not sure about this part. in english dub although he was accepted he was not of the appropriate age to learn.

however in japan do people start to take professional training in 14.In my country no one who attend lower secondary school does. they actually go for secondary and higher secondary.

but the people who do not attend or can not attend[mostly because of poverty] start professional training in 12 and so on.

it is quite interesting that in japan little teens start to think about their carrier very very early.

edit: i can relate myself to the most ghibli movies. even nausicaa and mononoke. specially totoro. they are set in the time that is quite the same in my country now. however nausicaa and mononoke is for different reason though.

Warning: This might get a bit political.

Please don't misunderstand Japanese youth as being something wiser and more mature than those of other cultures; Seiji is not a typical kid. Hayao Miyazaki wrote the screenplay and he idealized Seiji's parents and Shizuku's parents to make two fourteen-year-olds unusually wise and responsible for their age. He did exactly the same thing with Sousuke's mother in Ponyo. Sousuke, of course, is an incredibly mature five-year-old.

In America, where I was born, the form of parenting exhibited--using reason as discipline and letting kids learn on thier own the difference between right and wrong--was tried with disastrous results. Doctor Benjamin Spock wrote a book in the early 1950s about how to raise a child, entitled Baby and Child Care that turned out to be a best-seller. A television series that ran between the mid 1950s to early 1960s, Leave it to Beaver, showed how Spock's approach would produce well-behaved kids. Nobody, NOBODY believed the family depicted in the show was real. The fact remains that the kids raised using that book turned out to be the worst batch of self-centered brats in human history. I know, because I was one of them--and (proudly) still exhibit bits of it even today.

Hayao Miyazaki and his usual producer Toshio Suzuki were student radicals during the 1960s. Their politics endure and nearly all of Miyazaki's films have a lot of social and political commentary buried subliminally. Hayao still seems to believe the Spock approach is superior to traditional discipline and I strongly disagree. Nonetheless, his storytelling ability is so incredible that I will give him a life-long free pass through my conscience.

On your comments concerning Disney's nearly criminal alterations, there's nothing we can or should do to change what Disney is doing. Disney is trying to give the western public a look at what real animation can be. While Disney did a disservice to the ending of the movie, they did a good job elsewhere in the movie. The greatest departure from a film and its intent was Spirited Away whereby the story's theme was changed. All that aside, Disney gets approval for their dialogs directly from Studio Ghibli. It's a contractual thing, because Ghibli was badly burned by a really bad version of Nausicaa, called Warriors of the Wind.

Post last edited by dballred on 08.15.2012, 12:07 AM.

08.15.2012, 12:04 AM

Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12806

Hahaha, lucky for me (but not my rear-end), my mother ignored Dr Spock as did I later on with my own kids. Mom firmly believed in 'spare the rod and spoil the child'. Now don't get me wrong, I was NOT an angelic kid, although many adults thought so. I was known as the "good little kid that lived on Lincoln St" hahahaha

The thing was, when I got caught, I got it good... mostly on the butt area... And I raised my kids the same way... And they weren't angels, either... But I am proud of them all...

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08.15.2012, 02:25 AM

Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
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quote:
Originally posted by dballred

On your comments concerning Disney's nearly criminal alterations, there's nothing we can or should do to change what Disney is doing. Disney is trying to give the western public a look at what real animation can be. While Disney did a disservice to the ending of the movie, they did a good job elsewhere in the movie. The greatest departure from a film and its intent was Spirited Away whereby the story's theme was changed. All that aside, Disney gets approval for their dialogs directly from Studio Ghibli. It's a contractual thing, because Ghibli was badly burned by a really bad version of Nausicaa, called Warriors of the Wind.

i actually ran disney campaign here stating how good the translation is. that is why i said that. i do not actually love subs cause reading the bottom takes my attention from the real scene and i read in hayao miyazaki's interview that ghibli movies should be watched dubbed.

but after husky's comment it seems to me that only the seiji going to cremona is different in the dubs .

now are you 100% sure that he went to cremona again.

08.15.2012, 03:08 AM

Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749

what i found out is that whether Seiji is really going to Cremona or not is totally unclear

here is some of the original script[probably as i do not know japanese]

雫「クレモーナはどうだった？」

聖司「見ると聞くとは大違いさ。でもオレはやるよ。」

聖司「わぁ、明るくなってきたな・・・。」

雫「降りようか？」

聖司「大丈夫だ。」

using google translate tool gives me , here original means what google gave me

Shizuku "Cremona,how was it?"[original:Shizuku "Cremona is how was it?"]

Seiji "I'll do it even.To hear and see is a great difference."[original:Seiji "and hear and see is I'll do it even. Is a great difference."]

Seiji "Wow, · · ·. I have been getting brighter"

Shizuku "or getting off?"

Seiji "Okay."

which does not give any understandable meaning so a little help here

Post last edited by saviour2012 on 08.15.2012, 05:56 AM.

08.15.2012, 05:51 AM

Registration Date: 04.24.06
Location: Oklahoma City - Seattle - Tokyo
Posts: 406

quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
what i found out is that whether Seiji is really going to Cremona or not is totally unclear

here is some of the original script[probably as i do not know japanese]

雫「クレモーナはどうだった？」

聖司「見ると聞くとは大違いさ。でもオレはやるよ。」

聖司「わぁ、明るくなってきたな・・・。」

雫「降りようか？」

聖司「大丈夫だ。」

using google translate tool gives me , here original means what google gave me

Shizuku "Cremona,how was it?"[original:Shizuku "Cremona is how was it?"]

Seiji "I'll do it even.To hear and see is a great difference."[original:Seiji "and hear and see is I'll do it even. Is a great difference."]

Seiji "Wow, · · ·. I have been getting brighter"

Shizuku "or getting off?"

Seiji "Okay."

which does not give any understandable meaning so a little help here

You got the dialog a bit mixed up, as there were three separate topics: Seiji's decision to go, the morning sunrise, and the steep hill. Here's my translation of the dialog:

Seiji: There's a big difference between hearing about a place and seeing it, but I'm going to do it anyway.

[The word 'demo' ('but') indicates that Sieji seemed to be slightly disappointed that Cremona didn't fully turn out to be what he thought it would be.]

[Seiji is commenting that the sun is beginning to rise.]

Seiji: Wow, it's getting bright.

[Shizuku is on the back of the bicycle as Seiji starts up a steep hill]

Shizuku: Shall I get off?

Seiji: No, it's OK.

08.15.2012, 07:44 AM

Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
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Thanks for the reply

you already know i do not know japanese so google tool made that for me

the part

"i am going to do it anyway" is not present in the english version

can you imagine this one sentence changed the total theme of the story

how interesting

Post last edited by saviour2012 on 08.15.2012, 08:09 AM.

08.15.2012, 08:09 AM

Registration Date: 04.24.06
Location: Oklahoma City - Seattle - Tokyo
Posts: 406

quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
Thanks for the reply

you already know i do not know japanese so google tool made that for me

the part

"i am going to do it anyway" is not present in the english version

can you imagine this one sentence changed the total theme of the story

how interesting

My comments concerning a change in the theme was about the movie Spirited Away and not Whisper of the Heart. The basic story of Whisper is intact. I only feel that Disney robbed many of a truly powerful ending to a beautiful movie.

08.15.2012, 11:13 AM

Registration Date: 04.24.06
Location: Oklahoma City - Seattle - Tokyo
Posts: 406

quote:
Originally posted by husky51
Hahaha, lucky for me (but not my rear-end), my mother ignored Dr Spock as did I later on with my own kids. Mom firmly believed in 'spare the rod and spoil the child'. Now don't get me wrong, I was NOT an angelic kid, although many adults thought so. I was known as the "good little kid that lived on Lincoln St" hahahaha

The thing was, when I got caught, I got it good... mostly on the butt area... And I raised my kids the same way... And they weren't angels, either... But I am proud of them all...

I was an insufferable brat and made life hell for my younger brother. When I was 20, however, I ran into a guy, whom I since dubbed "Lampwick," at work. He seemed a lot like me--like I was looking into a mirror of personality--and we got along great at the start. After a short while, though, his character began to annoy me as he did others and I changed my outward behavior significantly. We're all pretty much who we are by age three, however, so I'm still quite the brat.

Post last edited by dballred on 08.15.2012, 11:44 AM.

08.15.2012, 11:28 AM

Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12806

My second step-dad ws born in Muscogee and I must say, he was the best thing that happened to me... He faced his problems head-on and dealt with them and I still love and respect him even now... I learned a lot from that man...

Unfortunately, him and Mom didn't last, but it was enough... My sister and I still miss him...

Sorry for going off topic. I say the OK City in your avatar and it reminded me of him...

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Post last edited by husky51 on 08.15.2012, 02:05 PM.

08.15.2012, 02:03 PM

Roarkiller
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Slightly off-topic: I don't believe that that teaching a child through reason is a bad thing. The problem is that the manner of education is wrong. Kids are kids, they don't know right from wrong, let alone able to understand complex logic.

The series Super Nanny, however, is an excellent example. Punishment is not physical, but psychological; the child is forced to think about their actions for themselves.

Anyway, good to know that the translation issue is settled. I for one believe that a dubbed animation should be viewed as a complete original, and not simply as a dubbed version.

I will never watch a dubbed live-action movie though. The lack of lip-synch is too annoying for me.

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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

08.16.2012, 01:20 PM

Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
Anyway, good to know that the translation issue is settled. I for one believe that a dubbed animation should be viewed as a complete original, and not simply as a dubbed version.

I will never watch a dubbed live-action movie though. The lack of lip-synch is too annoying for me.

they are original Roar

But the theme change is annoying

like until this point i thought that seiji and suzuku are going to high school etc etc

but if he is not going to high school a lot changes in the imagination and it is not like i can never get hold of the original version

ghibli does not make sequel so it is very annoying

But i watched Spirited away in Subs and Dubs did not understood the theme change can anyone help me

Post last edited by saviour2012 on 08.16.2012, 02:59 PM.

08.16.2012, 02:57 PM