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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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I have to say that this is primarily an anime forum. Yes we do discuss other things but generally most of those are personal subjects, like what we're doing, what we like and so on. Lightweight stuff. Fun stuff.
I don't think this forum is really the place to discuss all manner of difficult, controversial and confrontational subjects like this, like religion, like racism and like women's rights.
These are all tough subjects and you, Saviour have raised threads on them many times since you came here.
Your need to discuss such things with this particular community of anime lovers is misplaced. I think if these issues bother you strongly, you ought to seek out forums that are set up to discuss them, and not use (abuse?) the Tavern for them.
I am getting tired and upset by seeing this Tavern filled with these kinds of discussions.
This is a polite but firm request that you cease raising these kinds of issues here. In recent months we've fallen from quite a lively community to about 6 or 8 active people. Long term popular and prolific posters like Nausicaa Cat and Kazegami post here much less now. Others have vanished completely. I think these two facts are connected and the series of tough debates we have had since you arrived here Saviour are directly linked.
Please stop.
Please take your concerns about what is wrong with the world and how to fix it to other more appropriate forums.
I am pretty much at the end of my tether with all this stuff.
Thank you.
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Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
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 01.20.2014, 12:56 PM |
   
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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hmm you've got a good point.
and it's true that i have not found a forum that have as diverse member as tavern.
forums on global politics and other serious stuff have similar kind of members. and each of the forums have a trend of likeness about stuff.
and the reason why i post these topics is because i want to know different viewpoints from different persons with different thought process.
such as in this case i really thought that you guys will say that yeah it should have stayed banned obama should not try to give people reason to smoke.
but the view is totally opposite.why?
and thats the reason i want to know without fabrication. [ which is a problem in politics forum that they are not as truthful as you guys]
and i said to you to just ignore stuff that you dont like
we had many threads in anime and ghibli sections for past few days.
my threads will be serious i just cant say stuff like ohhh its so cute, is not it the adorable, it was great time etc . it is not within my character, i am a serious guy top to bottom. and i like ghibli because its serious too. it is a important point. ghibli talks about these things. this forum is about ghibli not about general anime[which i dont like very much]. you need to remember that.
and you tried to imply this thing twice, i think saddle you need to stop this. i dont generally mind people saying wrong stuff to me. but it looks odd. people will just assume you dont like me. i actually like you cause you remind me of someone i like.
and in my opinion about kaz and nausicaa. well nausicaa is having a great time in her university as she wrote and i think gets less time now.
for kaz i think he is also trying to get[or got] himself admitted into a university.
and dont worry my semester is starting to get serious so i will probably take another leave within next one two weeks[until the release of the wind rises in America, i wish to do some publicity of it in other forums. after that i will leave for another two months]
so hang until then LOL 
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 01.20.2014, 03:13 PM.
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| 01.20.2014, 02:45 PM |
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Mush
Baron
Registration Date: 07.30.07
Location: South of Canada
Posts: 1810 |
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quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
i think i agree with what you say. with one exception fight against drugs or anything bad can be won.
I think it can too, but law enforcement is not necessarily the answer. Social pressure and family support is probably the best way to do it. I think that's also what you think. 
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| 01.20.2014, 05:02 PM |
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fenkashi
Dibs on Supreme Overlord
Registration Date: 08.12.07
Location: Canada
Posts: 5726 |
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quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Legalize, regulate, and let consenting adults make their own decisions where they don't infringe of the freedoms of others.
this has been my central principle of discussion for the last two years. i do not like this idea at all. this idea feels like that if i do something bad then any of my friends or family wont stop me. that means i just have to depend on my judgement all the time. but i can be wrong too. so a little bit help could actually save me from the mistake.
Oh, but that's different you see. Families and friends who have personal knowledge of your stability and tendencies should weigh in on the choices you make. A blanket ban by the law, though, is too extreme imo. Especially when it does such a poor job of keeping people safe (there are so many underground avenues to get dangerous drugs). If there was legalization (and maybe I'm a bit too optimistic here), there would be an open forum to discuss these things. People wouldn't fear bringing up the topic with qualified people, like their doctors.
Opening up heavily stigmatized topics for frank discussion is usually a good thing. Like, how well did the whole abstinence campaign for minors wanting to engage in sex go?
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| 01.20.2014, 11:57 PM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mush
I think it can too, but law enforcement is not necessarily the answer. Social pressure and family support is probably the best way to do it. I think that's also what you think.
quote:
Oh, but that's different you see. Families and friends who have personal knowledge of your stability and tendencies should weigh in on the choices you make. A blanket ban by the law, though, is too extreme imo. Especially when it does such a poor job of keeping people safe (there are so many underground avenues to get dangerous drugs). If there was legalization (and maybe I'm a bit too optimistic here), there would be an open forum to discuss these things. People wouldn't fear bringing up the topic with qualified people, like their doctors.
i cant argue with any of the answers above cause they are correct. the thing is the definition of law to me is more like social bindings to me. cause in my country people get away easy with written laws but they cant when it is a social phenomena.
one question to fen
wont legalization mean i will say something like this " I am an adult and its legal so dont interfere with my business" [
in my country people will actually still insist that they dont do that even to young adults [18-25].
wont legalization make it harder for friends and family.
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
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| 01.21.2014, 12:33 AM |
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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.03.03
Location: Home, resting...
Posts: 6077 |
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The ban on minors having sex with each other is stupid. I'd say the fault is in the parents and schools for not having proper sex education.
Anyway,
quote:
Legalize, regulate, and let consenting adults make their own decisions where they don't infringe of the freedoms of others.
This is idealism at best. The idea of "what I do doesn't concern others" is narcissistic and ignores any indirect influence of that person on others. For example, a smoker can say that their health and money is their business, but clearly any smoking on their part is visible to their kids, family members, friends, etc etc, and we all know that kids especially like to imitate adults. Peer pressure is severely underestimated in this issue as well.
I remember a newspaper article a few months about a female bodybuilder whose father was also a bodybuilder. Her father was very against her being a bodybuilder because he thinks it's shameful to have his daughter parade her body to everyone.
The daughter's response was short and trite: "But dad, you did it too." Daddy had nothing in response.
I believe that "total personal freedom" is a misnomer. We are influenced by everything around us, from what we eat to how we dress, and definitely does not exclude how we think and behave. We choose what we do, but how we make that choice is certainly not solely made by ourselves.
__________________
I am me.
I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.
Roarkiller.net
Isakaya High RPG Site
quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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| 01.21.2014, 12:34 AM |
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fenkashi
Dibs on Supreme Overlord
Registration Date: 08.12.07
Location: Canada
Posts: 5726 |
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What can I say, I'm an idealist.
In all seriousness, though. Where do you stop, then? Do you stop at drugs? Do you move onto alcohol? What about processed foods? Video games and other things that promote sedentary lifestyles? What time people sleep? What they do during the day, when they do it? Who they see? What they think?
I'm not going to be sorry for having faith that given the freedom, we will learn to make better choices. If we are not given that freedom, then what is the meaning behind our choices ... they aren't choices at all. Enforcing the "perfect" lifestyle on people starts with making claims that anyone can KNOW what that is. And I feel that's narcissistic on a whole other level.
Besides, I did say regulated. That can mean a lot for what the drug industry would look like, and how it would influence people.
---
@saviour: not really, see what I just said about the regulation of drugs. Just because things are legal, doesn't make them accepted by society at large (ie. smoking, getting married at 16, drinking your life away, etc). Societal pressures will always factor in.
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| 01.21.2014, 12:46 AM |
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husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12792 |
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My mother was a smoker all of her life, but it was peer pressure that started me smoking at 9 yrs of age. At 13, my mother told me that, like her father did with her, she knew I was going to be smoking regardless of what she said and I was given permission to smoke in front of her. Her reasoning? I'd rather you do it in front of me than behind my back, since you are going to do it anyway. When I quit smoking at 28, I was smoking 2-1/2 to 3 packs a day of Pell Mell regulars.
My first step-father was a heavy alcoholic and I think that is what influenced me as an adult to moderate my own alcohol consumption. That's not to say that I haven't ever been drunk, I have and I suffered for it in the morning, believe me. But even now, I have an occasional social drink, a beer or a glass of rum and coke.
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Post last edited by husky51 on 01.21.2014, 01:03 PM.
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| 01.21.2014, 01:01 PM |
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Nausicaa_Cat
Baron
Registration Date: 10.02.06
Location:
Posts: 3198 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
This is a polite but firm request that you cease raising these kinds of issues here. In recent months we've fallen from quite a lively community to about 6 or 8 active people. Long term popular and prolific posters like Nausicaa Cat and Kazegami post here much less now. Others have vanished completely. I think these two facts are connected and the series of tough debates we have had since you arrived here Saviour are directly linked.
Hey, just saw this! It is certainly difficult and more daunting to dip into more complicated discussions such as those saviour raises (especially when I spend most of my day doing just that during classes/lectures) but I must admit a large part of my personal withdrawal from the forum is a feeling of not having a huge amount to say/personal laziness. I actually check the forum pretty much every day/every other day though so don't worry if I'm not posting as much because I'm still very much around 
This debate on the legalising of marijuana is pretty interesting!
Personally, whilst I would never take any other kind of drug I would have to say that a huge number of the people I know at university engage in the recreational use of marijuana. It's massively normalized, in fact at this point I would find it more unusual to meet someone my own age at university who has not tried it even once and would not be willing to.
I would say, just as with alcohol, it is a matter of moderation. Just yesterday I was speaking to someone who smoked roughly three times a day, every day, for about seven years. He said that whilst at the time it didn't appear to affect him negatively, by the end of that period he was suffering serious memory issues and he feels it took him about 2-3 years to recover his normal mental processes. It's like with anything else, even fast food, if you abuse a substance it will harm you. Whether weed is legalised or not has very little effect in my opinion in this regard because a substance abuser will access that substance regardless of law. I can say with confidence that when I was under 18 it was far easier to get access to marijuana than it was alcohol. The legalisation of it seems to be only to be a fairly logical step.
If you take the time to investigate the situation the original reasons for marijuana becoming illegal are pretty shady and mostly for racial/economic reasons. Far before it was used recreationally hemp was an extremely valuable natural resource. An acre of hemp will produce from four to ten times as much paper as will an acre of trees. Hemp would also provide an alternative source of biofuels and can be used to make degradable plastics. This is dismissing the fact that it has medical credence for a wide range of illnesses, or it's use in textiles. It can also be used for animal feed/bedding/construction/body care products. It grows from a seed to maturity in just 12-16 weeks.
Dismissing any matter of recreational usage, given the environmental climate of our world it borders on moronic to not make extensive use of such a wide-ranging and useful natural resource.
Besides anybody who takes the time to look at the statistics coming from countries which have legalized marijuana can see that they all point to the fact that it can be hugely beneficial to lowering crime rates.
Regulated marijuana would also be a massive economic injection, taking money away from illegal smuggling rings and providing the government with greater funds.
So yeah, I seriously do not understand how someone who has taken the time to read extensively and without prejudice on the topic can really justify this continued prohibition.
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| 01.21.2014, 02:16 PM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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answer is
"is the govt do want to fight drug addiction?"
the end result will depend on this question.
and i think you do understand that hemp is not actually marijuana[hemp is similar to jute(Bast Fibers),where hemp is one of the varieties of cannabis]. it does have industrial purpose so does many other plants too. i think harvesting hemp is not a necessity, if you consider other crops that can also be produced.[but i am not against it] and sometimes people break rule to make marijuana rather than hemp. this is purdue university research article from 2002
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-284.html
[and most of the goodness that people are saying about hemp actually came from this]
to save you reading this rather lengthy article just press ctrl+f and paste these then press enter
"Both in Canada and the US, the most critical problem to be addressed for commercial exploitation of C. sativa is the possible unauthorized drug use of the plant".
and
"many in the movements backing development of hemp are doing so as a subterfuge to promote legalization of recreational use of marijuana"
read it. [ofcourse you can read it fully if you want.[its a scientific paper so it will get boring still a good read]
understand this, the industrial effects you want from hemp can also be gained from other crops. the thing is the amount money that is gained by recreational use is nowhere near industrial use. same goes for alcohol too. we NEED alcohol everyday but for drinking no. but the market for recreational use is soo lucrative that people need to actually just make these things toxic[read denatured alcohol].
i wanted to say
so overall i can say that "I seriously do not understand" how can legalizing it will make it a better environment.LOL
but i want to say
the problems associated with drug is not something to just play with. cigarettes and alcohol as both of them are legal causes
"There are approximately 88,000 deaths attributable to excessive alcohol use each year in the United States. This makes excessive alcohol use the 3rd leading lifestyle-related cause of death for the nation. Excessive alcohol use is responsible for 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) annually, or an average of about 30 years of potential life lost for each death.1 In 2006, there were more than 1.2 million emergency room visits and 2.7 million physician office visits due to excessive drinking.3 The economic costs of excessive alcohol consumption in 2006 were estimated at $223.5 billion."
and
"Cigarette smoking is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States and produces substantial health-related economic costs to society (1,2). This report presents the annual estimates of the disease impact of smoking in the United States during 1995--1999. CDC calculated national estimates of annual smoking-attributable mortality (SAM), years of potential life lost (YPLL), smoking-attributable medical expenditures (SAEs) for adults and infants, and productivity costs for adults. Results show that during 1995--1999, smoking caused approximately 440,000 premature deaths in the United States annually and approximately $157 billion in annual health-related economic losses."
both are several years old even without adding the new values
we get a total of 223+157=380billion dollar per year[should be about a trillion now].
Now please find me one business that can generate this much money.
so it is hard for me to see people get blinded so easily. you think that if marijuana gets valid then govt will be able to make more money. which is in every way wrong. you could make even more money just if you could utilize these people.
"The total annual cost of drug abuse presented in the report is an impressive $180.8 billion"
this figure is a rough estimate cause most of the drugs issues are unreported still a staggering figure. it will just rise another two hundred billion if drugs get more widespread.
and if you have not read that article fully then search this
"Comparative annual world economic significance of categories of Cannabis activity."
see that 1 trillion yeah its for recreational use.[in whole world]. which actually tripled right now[it is a 2002 article] (and you say people want to use it for industry, even dog food industry is 21.6 billion where "The global market for hemp-derived products is valued at between $100 million and $200 million annually". lets assume its 1 billion. still it is thousand times lower)
now it is upto you how will you think, the figures are presented.
there is absolutely no way that unbanning it will make it better, actually it will just make it worse.
source :http://www.cdc.gov/
NB: i try to use something very official very specific[or scientific research] material when there are things that involve monetary profit to parties. so its better to just ignore any kind normal sites.
offtopic:
quote:
especially when I spend most of my day doing just that during classes/lectures
this is interesting it maybe a cause why i am interested in these things
edit: one simple image to show the difference between hemp and marijuana[who dont have the energy to pass through all the materials]
Cross sections of stems at internodes of a fiber plant (left) and of a narcotic plant (right). Fiber cultivars have stems that are more hollow at the internodes, i.e. less wood, since this allows more energy to be directed into the production of bark fiber
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 01.21.2014, 04:11 PM.
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| 01.21.2014, 03:44 PM |
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Mush
Baron
Registration Date: 07.30.07
Location: South of Canada
Posts: 1810 |
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Industrial hemp is vastly superior to replacements like cotton. It's definitely not the same variety of plant as marijuana. But it can sometimes be hard for law enforcement to tell the difference.
It's kind of funny to see myself talking about this though. XD
Post last edited by Mush on 01.22.2014, 01:06 AM.
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| 01.22.2014, 01:06 AM |
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Calforsale
Totoro
Registration Date: 01.19.10
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 866 |
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Yeah, there are issues of hemp with the law here. Its annoying, hemp is an excellent form of protein.
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| 01.22.2014, 01:24 AM |
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Orphic Okapi
Baron
Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1335 |
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
In all seriousness, though. Where do you stop, then? Do you stop at drugs? Do you move onto alcohol? What about processed foods? Video games and other things that promote sedentary lifestyles? What time people sleep? What they do during the day, when they do it? Who they see? What they think?
I'm not going to be sorry for having faith that given the freedom, we will learn to make better choices. If we are not given that freedom, then what is the meaning behind our choices ... they aren't choices at all. Enforcing the "perfect" lifestyle on people starts with making claims that anyone can KNOW what that is. And I feel that's narcissistic on a whole other level.
I feel like you took the words out of my mouth, only made them more persuasive and intelligent-sounding.
Isn't this at the root of the religious idea of free will? If God gave us the free will to choose right or wrong, I don't think he would look kindly upon governments that deprived people of that choice, even if it meant everyone behaving exactly the way he wants. If he didn't want people to make moral decisions for themselves, he would have taken the ability away himself, right?
(Sorry to bring religion into an already controversial discussion.)
__________________
 I like tea!
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| 01.22.2014, 02:01 AM |
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arren18
Administrator
Registration Date: 08.15.06
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 10665 |
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Federal law in the US prohibits growing hemp. So while it isn't the same variety as what people smoke, the potential is severely hindered, due to the association. If people were free to grow it and to properly study which cultivars are the most useful, the hemp industry could become very valuable, especially with all the problems of depleting resources that we have today.
On another note, I do wish you'd let go of this idea that we only disagree with you because we're all ignorant fools. You say things like "so it is hard for me to see people get blinded so easily", and it's not the first time you've spoken in this way in arguments. Consider that if you stop treating people like sheep having the wool pulled over their eyes (pardon the mixed metaphor), you might stand a better chance of convincing them.
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| 01.22.2014, 02:08 AM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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quote:
Originally posted by arren18
On another note, I do wish you'd let go of this idea that we only disagree with you because we're all ignorant fools. You say things like "so it is hard for me to see people get blinded so easily", and it's not the first time you've spoken in this way in arguments. Consider that if you stop treating people like sheep having the wool pulled over their eyes (pardon the mixed metaphor), you might stand a better chance of convincing them.
i am sorry if i mistreated anyone
hemp is not a new crop. so why all on a sudden all the good facts about hemp is coming. it just does not feel right to me. specially due to the fact that market price of hemp vs marijuana is 1:1000. so i do not understand why people will harvest hemp not marijuana. it is exactly same for tobacco.
there are people who make stories and build popular belief. this is just a fabrication of the lie inside. as i said earlier accepting anything coming to oneself is problematic.
again i do not mean anyone by it. its just that i do not understand why i will accept anything that is said in the news or widespread in public.
@mush
yes it is. specially from a aerial position.
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
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| 01.22.2014, 02:46 AM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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WOW
marijuana cakes, lotion , candy[all kinds]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/28...kushpmg00000063
i mean a cake is already tasty why the need to get high.
I will ignore the situation from now
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 03.01.2014, 09:00 AM.
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| 03.01.2014, 08:59 AM |
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