Ghibli Tavern - Print: The death of classics

Ghibli Tavern (http://www.onlineghibli.com/tavern/index.php)
|- General Discussions (http://www.onlineghibli.com/tavern/board.php?boardid=1)
|-- The death of classics (http://www.onlineghibli.com/tavern/threadid.php?boardid=1&threadid=3599)

Posted by husky51 on 08.18.2015, 06:28 PM:

One TV show that may fit the category of being a classic might be "Bonanza". This is an USA made series that is still in syndication worldwide. I remember watching it on Japanese TV with Japanese dubbing. And, as I said, it is still being aired...

One classic IMO is the Japanese made film "Seven Samurai" with Toshio Mifune (spelling?) There are many other films that fit within the term of 'classic' that are too many to list. But,again, that is in my opinion.

I tend to agree with Saddles statements above...

__________________

Posted by Saddletank on 08.19.2015, 03:46 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by FlareNetworkC
I agree. A classic does not have to be good to be a classic. For example, you can consider School Days as a classic Harem anime. Is School Days good? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NO.

In my calculations that dismissis it from classic status. Shows can be great, "great" and/or have a cult following, but none of these makes them classics.

Husky brings up "Bonanza". It may fit the classic bill since it was important in its time of probably being the very first soap opera as we understand it today with the show being a series of slice of life events (dramatised of course to get ratings) but without an overarching story. This alone gives it technical merit which is significant.

The other shows mentioned didn't actually do or achieve anything, other than people liking them. And people do not have good taste for the most part.

I'm not saying a classic must not be popular, but if it is popular it must have some other defining element, like Bonanza did.

__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info

"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)

Posted by saviour2012 on 08.19.2015, 06:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
I'm not saying a classic must not be popular, but if it is popular it must have some other defining element, like Bonanza did.

i think you are right. Shows that ARE popular after decades do have something special which makes it possible to remain popular. and i think it does not need to be always a defined element(that is quality or some other things). I think for recent popular shows we can take popularity with a grain of salt with more emphasis on its other aspects.

while for shows(movie tv etc) that is at least 15-20 years old we can use the popularity as a very important element.

that way we can come to an agreement.

__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

Posted by Roarkiller on 08.20.2015, 01:44 AM:

Actually there is argument for the unpopular classic. If technical supremacy is what defines a classic, then popularity wouldn't play a part at all. And, it's contradictory to say that a classic must be popular because of a "defining factor", since the same can be said for anything popular, or it wouldn't be popular in the first place.

__________________
I am me.
I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.

Roarkiller.net
Isakaya High RPG Site

quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

Posted by Saddletank on 08.20.2015, 05:43 AM:

I think you're misunderstanding what I am saying.

I agree it is possible for a classic to not be popular (I would not use the negative phrase unpopular since I actually disagree with that). By popular I mean liked by the masses, like perhaps Transformers is, or the recent trend in superhero comics series of movies, or pretty much anything Pixar touches.

Unpopular is definitely something different and I don't think a classic can be unpopular.

I didn't say technical supremacy defined a classic either. I listed a handful of criteria which I think in variable amounts makes up what a classic film is. It has to be technically superior but I feel it has to be other things as well.

The key element which I think a classic film must have is societal or cultural relevance. It must say something, it must speak. "Star Wars" speaks. "Twelve Angry Men" speaks. "Seven Samurai" speaks. The recent trend in superhero movies do not, no matter how cool they are.

I don't really understand your last comment. I didn't say a classic must be popular either. Popularity is possible, but it's not essential.

I think the one element I feel needs to be present is the social relevance or commentary aspect. Any number of other factors are usually present because good film making normally includes them but they're not essential.

Its hard to find a classic that isn't also technically good or pretty popular, at least among critical viewers, because on the journey to classic status a director will usually make a host of semi-related wise decisions about all manner of things involved in his or her film.

__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info

"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)

Posted by saviour2012 on 08.20.2015, 09:04 AM:

Unpopular is definitely something different and I don't think a classic can be unpopular.

I think the one element I feel needs to be present is the social relevance or commentary aspect. Any number of other factors are usually present because good film making normally includes them but they're not essential.

and you summarized

Its hard to find a classic that isn't also technically good or pretty popular, at least among critical viewers, because on the journey to classic status a director will usually make a host of semi-related wise decisions about all manner of things involved in his or her film.

i think i agree with you and roar too might agree with you.

i would add

technically good and/or pretty popular

Posted by saviour2012 on 08.28.2015, 11:27 AM:

so is this discussion over or what?

if its over then can we start suggesting some classics to each other.

Koda said breakfast club is a classic i watched The perks of being a wallflower, which was preety good so i might watch this one as they are kind of similar according to Wikipedia that is.