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Miyrru
Graphic Designer
Registration Date: 08.16.06
Location: Freezing cold Northern Ontario
Posts: 7178 |
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Naruto is crap, I do watch Bleach, but so far that series has been good, so i guess i may be a hypocrite for bashing naruto.
anime is a closet industry. I know a few friends of mine that have bashed it for being childish, of course they don't know that I am a diehard fan, but I can keep that under wraps fairly easily.
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 01.11.2008, 08:56 PM |
   
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harmony-of-mar
Baron
Registration Date: 09.11.07
Location: In the black order cafeteria, eating with allen
Posts: 2635 |
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i love naruto, lottsa blood.
and humour. love violent comedy, but i hate sakura.
and atra, im not 15, im 14.
but that probabaly makes it worse...
and there are australians in this forum too!
even if the majority of them are me and my mates from highschool...
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http://harmony-of-mar.deviantart.com/
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| 01.11.2008, 08:58 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
Posts: 370 |
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Oh wow what a post Naka....
quote:
Currently it is pure garbage. However, the first 20, 40, perhaps even 60-70 episodes are not that bad at all.
I think I agree with that, the first major arcs of the naruto series are very good, there is a noticeable lull post episode 80ish but it picks up again at around 120/125 to cover the battle between Naruto and Saskue before descending into filler arc after filler arc which as you rightly said, are nothing but garbage.
I have to thank you for your opinion on Otaku culture and it's difference from mainstream japanese culture. It backs up everything I have read/researched elsewhere and it's gratifing to hear it backed up by someone from japan. In some ways I would say the situation is the same here though, where those who would call themselves Otaku are a tiny percent of the population and that mainstream culture is oblivious to it. Perhaps Oblivious is too strong a word, but if I mention even a well known anime/manga such as Naruto none of my friends will know what I'm talking about.
quote:
companies are starting to produce anime based on manga that is directed outside the otaku market.
As a slight aside do you feel that this will increase the amount of anime/manga released into western mainstream?
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| 01.11.2008, 09:06 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
Posts: 370 |
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I think I'm gonna have to learn not to post long posts on this forum aren't I? Every time I do there are goodness knows how many replies posted in between.
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and atra, im not 15, im 14.
No worries mate 
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| 01.11.2008, 09:08 PM |
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harmony-of-mar
Baron
Registration Date: 09.11.07
Location: In the black order cafeteria, eating with allen
Posts: 2635 |
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| 01.11.2008, 09:11 PM |
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Nakamatsu
Susuwatari
Registration Date: 01.11.08
Location:
Posts: 5 |
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quote:
In some ways I would say the situation is the same here though, where those who would call themselves Otaku are a tiny percent of the population and that mainstream culture is oblivious to it.
And yet, I think it's far worse in Japan because of this "stigma" that's been attached to it. I have never really felt any need to "hide" my tastes in anime while I've been here in the West. In fact a lot of people will just consider it a hobby. This is really not the case in Japan.
quote:
As a slight aside do you feel that this will increase the amount of anime/manga released into western mainstream?
Perhaps. But I'm sure it will change the type of anime coming over to the West. Many studios in the West either bring in children's anime series to market to the kids channels, or action oriented, sci-fi series. But lately, even school days/relationship drama (such as Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien", have been licensed. This is something I never I thought I'd see happen. I can only hope that only the good anime make it over and the rather unsettling aspects of the otaku/anime culture aren't brought up.
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| 01.12.2008, 05:12 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
Posts: 370 |
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quote:
I can only hope that only the good anime make it over and the rather unsettling aspects of the otaku/anime culture aren't brought up.
And yet everyones tastes are different, I'd like to see a wide and varied amount come over. That way there would be something that I guess everyone could enjoy, but i understand what you mean. I can't ever see it being a good thing if all that comes over are fanservice-packed "niche" animes. Things like Green Green or to a certain extent Zero no Tsukaima. Perhaps refering to some animes as niche is wrong of me to begin with though. As anime as it's own genre would be described as niche by a majority of the public.
Anyway thanks for answering my question, but you rasied another point about not hiding your "fandom" here in the west. So does this mean you would be more careful about revealing it in japan because of the stigma? I know you already touched on this so I'm sorry if I make you repeat yourself.
I'm trying to choose my words carefully here too, because I know that the word "Otaku" has different meanings in our cultures. In England I would refer to myself as an Otaku quite openly because it doesn't have the negative image like in Japan. Apparently being labelled an Otaku in japan is almost an insult? and people have a tendancy to deny it.
Oh,one last thing. quote:
unsettling aspects of the otaku/anime culture aren't brought up.
Do you mean things like Dojishi? I think thats how you spell it.
[Edit] I meant Dojinshi
Post last edited by Atradius on 01.12.2008, 06:08 PM.
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| 01.12.2008, 05:43 PM |
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fenkashi
Dibs on Supreme Overlord
Registration Date: 08.12.07
Location: Canada
Posts: 5733 |
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@ Nakamatsu - If it's not considered a hobby, then what is it considered?
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Post last edited by fenkashi on 01.12.2008, 05:55 PM.
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| 01.12.2008, 05:50 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
Posts: 370 |
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quote:
If it's not considered a hobby, then what is it considered?
An ADDICTION!!!
hehe, I know it wasn't my question, I couldn't resist.
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| 01.12.2008, 06:07 PM |
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fenkashi
Dibs on Supreme Overlord
Registration Date: 08.12.07
Location: Canada
Posts: 5733 |
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Hehe, you're welcome to it xD
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| 01.12.2008, 06:13 PM |
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Nakamatsu
Susuwatari
Registration Date: 01.11.08
Location:
Posts: 5 |
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@ Atradius
quote:
And yet everyones tastes are different, I'd like to see a wide and varied amount come over. That way there would be something that I guess everyone could enjoy, but i understand what you mean. I can't ever see it being a good thing if all that comes over are fanservice-packed "niche" animes. Things like Green Green or to a certain extent Zero no Tsukaima. Perhaps refering to some animes as niche is wrong of me to begin with though. As anime as it's own genre would be described as niche by a majority of the public.
I simply would prefer if the rest of the anime/otaku culture not be brought over because I prefer the fact that in the West there isn't the huge broad association there is in Japan. In Japan, being an anime fan is associated with being into ero-games, generally, just being obsessed with drawn figures, figurines, posters, the like, and I must admit even I find it creepy sometimes. There's a show called "Welcome to the NHK!" where the main character's roommate is an "otaku". It should give you something of an idea.
It's nice that this broad "subculture" aspect doesn't exist in the West. I know people who enjoy many animes and have no idea about these other aspects of the "otaku culture" in Japan.
quote:
So does this mean you would be more careful about revealing it in japan because of the stigma?
Before I left Japan (a few years ago), I simply did not tell anyone that I was an anime fan, except other anime fans.
I haven't been there in the past few years. I think that perhaps it has gotten better considering the kinds of shows I mentioned above, are being made, for a more general audience.
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@fenkashi
quote:
Nakamatsu - If it's not considered a hobby, then what is it considered?
I don't know how I can describe it that would really reflect the situation, but it's just not something that is normal or wanted. The average opinion is, "there's something messed up with that guy". Losers. Socially inept. Some people consider otakus to be people with no lives who pass their days watching anime and playing ero-games.
If I told someone there I was an anime fan, they would probably just nod their head and say "Oh, I see" and walk away, and that's probably what they'd be thinking.
Post last edited by Nakamatsu on 01.12.2008, 06:52 PM.
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| 01.12.2008, 06:51 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Nakamatsu
I simply would prefer if the rest of the anime/otaku culture not be brought over because I prefer the fact that in the West there isn't the huge broad association there is in Japan. In Japan, being an anime fan is associated with being into ero-games, generally, just being obsessed with drawn figures, figurines, posters, the like, and I must admit even I find it creepy sometimes.
I'm afraid you're too late, we already have it. We already have a sub-culture of unwashed teens who collect action figures, buy posters and wear dubious cosplay outfits, its big here in the UK and bigger still in the USA.
It was here years before anime came on the scene.
Wherever there are developed societies with youths who are unfortunately lacking in social confidence there will be such cultures.
Fifty years ago in Britain they collected railway engine numbers, today they collect Star Wars figurines. There will always be borderline aspects of any hobby such as anime where fanservice or action figures where scantily dressed warrior maidens fight off phallic-looking dragons appeals to a certain customer, you'll never avoid it. That's not to say that the action figure or anime industry is contaminated by such customers: I don't believe it is, either here in the UK or in Japan. There is the sweaty fringe market in most media or hobby industries.
Oh, and welcome to the forum, hope you have fun!
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"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
Post last edited by Saddletank on 01.12.2008, 08:28 PM.
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| 01.12.2008, 08:21 PM |
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Nakamatsu
Susuwatari
Registration Date: 01.11.08
Location:
Posts: 5 |
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quote:
I'm afraid you're too late, we already have it. We already have a sub-culture of unwashed teens who collect action figures, buy posters and wear dubious cosplay outfits, its big here in the UK and bigger still in the USA.
I don't think you quite understand. The otaku culture is not about teenagers - these are young adults and sometimes just adults, who, by the Japanese standard, should be contributing to society, but are "wasting away" viewing anime and playing ero-games.
quote:
It was here years before anime came on the scene.
It isn't about dressing up in costumes. Perhaps you have to visit an "otaku" shop to see it, but it's about the entire culture of obsession with the drawn image, mostly with drawn girls. There are posters of half-naked anime characters, figurines of anime girls with skirts being lifted, games where you "court" anime girls etc, things like this. This is the big part of otaku culture. It is not similar to star wars fans.
quote:
That's not to say that the action figure or anime industry is even remotely contamined by such customers: I don't believe it is, either here in the UK or in Japan.
The fallacy here is that the otaku's are the industry. Outside of the "Gods", like Hayao Miyazaki, and the famous children's series, like Dragonball, known to all of us, most of the regular anime industry is driven for otakus. They are not the "fringe", they're the audience. This may be beginning to change, but we'll see if it sticks.
quote:
Here the response is "Cartoons?" As you know in the west animation = for children. It's merely a case of education though in most cases.
It goes further than being "for children". It's a cultural stigma. I don't think there is anything quite like it in the West that I can compare it to, but Japan is a unique society, sometimes in very unpleasant ways.
I think perhaps these things seem to odd to outsiders, and it seems contradictory that we (Japanese people) can praise and almost worship Hayao Miyazaki and his animated films, and yet look at anime fans and immediately form a negative picture of them. But Japan doesn't always make sense.
quote:
Oh, and welcome to the forum, hope you have fun!
Thank you.
Post last edited by Nakamatsu on 01.12.2008, 08:40 PM.
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| 01.12.2008, 08:37 PM |
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Theowne
Baron
Registration Date: 02.11.07
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1290 |
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quote:
There's a show called "Welcome to the NHK!" where the main character's roommate is an "otaku". It should give you something of an idea.
Which is a pretty good anime on it's own, although it's a bit, well "screwed up". But it certainly has it's suspense.
This is going back to the "off-topic" discussion that took place earlier in the thread, but I don't consider it off-topic at all, since I think the source of point of what we commonly call "fanservice" in anime has to do with the audience for it. After all, not many shows in the West have random panty shots or similar kinds of fanservice that some anime has in the same sort of widespread way. There are no shows made almost exclusively for the purpose of fanservice. There's a reason for that. It wouldn't be that way if the audience and details about anime was just like it was in the US or UK and their "hobby" stuff.
Post last edited by Theowne on 01.12.2008, 09:04 PM.
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| 01.12.2008, 08:46 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
Posts: 370 |
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Now I've seen NHK, but i think Genshiken and Lucky Star are actually better representations of Otaku lifestyle and culture. I consider myself to be very similar to Konota from LS (assuming we overlook the fact konota is female ;D)
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| 01.12.2008, 09:13 PM |
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Theowne
Baron
Registration Date: 02.11.07
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1290 |
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I've seen Genshiken, but not Lucky Star, though that seemed to be a popular show on the Japanese boards. Yeah, Genshiken sort of focuses on the Otaku lifestyle, NHK more or less just involves an otaku character, and the main character becomes one for a little while too.
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| 01.12.2008, 09:30 PM |
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Miyrru
Graphic Designer
Registration Date: 08.16.06
Location: Freezing cold Northern Ontario
Posts: 7178 |
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quote:
quote:I'm afraid you're too late, we already have it. We already have a sub-culture of unwashed teens who collect action figures, buy posters and wear dubious cosplay outfits, its big here in the UK and bigger still in the USA.
I don't think you quite understand. The otaku culture is not about teenagers - these are young adults and sometimes just adults, who, by the Japanese standard, should be contributing to society, but are "wasting away" viewing anime and playing ero-games.
just to put a point in, i understand your point of the japanese think you are wasting your time by watching anime and not contributing to society, but most people who even though they are older, use anime has a hobby. And for a second point, the japanese should be ticked at a lot more people, cause there are people all over the world hooked on stuff, now, some of it is anime, but there are people hooked on star war, star trek, western comic books and shows. Hell, there are people who are sports nuts. To various degrees, there are a drove of people wasting time by being obsessed with stuff, anime is not an exception to the rule.
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The truth had to be seen. Anything else was a story, entertaining but more embroidered fib then crude, shapeless fact. ~Dave Eggers
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| 01.12.2008, 09:40 PM |
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Atradius
Ohmu
Registration Date: 11.10.07
Location: Flat on my back gazing up at the stars
Posts: 370 |
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I think I draw my own personal boundry at "where my Job starts becoming purely a means to fuel my hobby, rather than the current situation where hobby is just that, something I do in my spare time when I'm not working." If that makes sense.
There have been times when I've overindulged and crossed the line (like the time I watched the 1st 100 episodes of sailor moon pretty much back to back) but it's only when you are prioritising the wrong things that it becomes a problem.
Atra
Post last edited by Atradius on 01.12.2008, 09:49 PM.
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| 01.12.2008, 09:48 PM |
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Miyrru
Graphic Designer
Registration Date: 08.16.06
Location: Freezing cold Northern Ontario
Posts: 7178 |
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I would think that an argument can be made that there are more people hooked on MMORPGS than there are people hooked on anime. Then add in all the diehard fans of sports, star trek and you out count all the anime fans.
I find it easy to not let my job fuel my hobby when i just download everything for free. Economics all the way.
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The truth had to be seen. Anything else was a story, entertaining but more embroidered fib then crude, shapeless fact. ~Dave Eggers
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| 01.12.2008, 09:50 PM |
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Theowne
Baron
Registration Date: 02.11.07
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1290 |
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I think you're really missing his point. He's not talking about the amount of people obsessed with stuff or the amount of fans of whatever hobby there are. It's about the Japanese perception of them, the culture which exists in Japan regarding them, and what the social situation in Japan is. That is where the otaku culture in Japan is unique.
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| 01.12.2008, 09:54 PM |
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