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Heidi80
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Question about the ending of Whisper of the heart

I read somewhere that Seiji doesn't ask Shizuku to marry him when he comes back at the end of the american version of Whisper of the heart (the scene where Seiji and Shizuku are watching the sunrise). Is this true? Why would DIsney have changed the scene? Of course, it's might seem a little weird for a 13-14 year old boy to propose to a girl, but I actually think this scene is really cute. It kind of shows that while Seiji and Shizuku must focus on their own projects at the moment, they love each other very much.

07.04.2012, 09:24 AM

Saddletank
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That's quite right and I suppose Disney changed it because they thought it was inappropriate for a 14 YO boy to suggest such a thing.

It's a case of a Western distributor misunderstanding Japanese society as well because I understand that from around the time of Miyazaki's youth, bond-pledges were made when people were very young and marriages were still arranged as well.

Some people think its silly that Seiji should propose marriage but they are westerners as well, to them it seems silly and possibly childish.

Maybe it is childish, just a gesture - but in that case, why edit it?

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07.04.2012, 02:01 PM

Heidi80
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
That's quite right and I suppose Disney changed it because they thought it was inappropriate for a 14 YO boy to suggest such a thing.

It's a case of a Western distributor misunderstanding Japanese society as well because I understand that from around the time of Miyazaki's youth, bond-pledges were made when people were very young and marriages were still arranged as well.

Some people think its silly that Seiji should propose marriage but they are westerners as well, to them it seems silly and possibly childish.

Maybe it is childish, just a gesture - but in that case, why edit it?

I agree that it's a missunderstanding from the western distributors. It's not like Seiji asks Shizuku to marry him right there and then, he's asking her to wait for him until he comes back (which is probably in 3-4 years). I don't think it's just a gesture, Seiji is a young boy in love, and he has to tell the girl he loves his feelings, no matter how silly or childish it sounds. It's this that makes the scene so sweet to me.

07.05.2012, 05:47 AM

Roarkiller
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Ten years, actually. Not 3-4 years.

And he's not actually proposing. It's just another way of confessing, albeit uncommon. You know how it is, boy/girl too shy to actually say "love" straight out, so he goes about it in a roundabout manner.

In my country, for example, it was trendy at one time to propose by saying, "Let's buy a house" instead of saying, "Let's get married."

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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

07.05.2012, 07:20 AM

Arkadian
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller

In my country...

And that would be...

07.05.2012, 12:18 PM

Saddletank
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Where is the ten years stated? I wasn't aware of that? I got the impression from the film that Seiji's time in Italy would be quite short.

I'd like to hear more comments on why Disney changed it as well. If we are reducing the remark it to the level of "Hey, will you marry me, one day? When we're all grown up?" kind of deal, I see no reason for Disney to change it.

Disney must have thought it meant something else in order to remove it. Its that something else that intrigues me.

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Post last edited by Saddletank on 07.05.2012, 12:35 PM.

07.05.2012, 12:33 PM

Roarkiller
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@Arkadian: I'm from Singapore.

@Saddle: You're the last person I expected to hear that from, really. He mentioned on the roof that if he did well on his initial two-month internship, he would go back immediately for a ten-year period.

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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

07.05.2012, 10:09 PM

saviour2012
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did here anybody(who are commenting) saw that disney version. i do not think so.

seiji ofcourse proposes suzuku to marry him.

the lines that is said by seiji is something like this suzuki do you see us married some day.

dont doubt disney dub man. no other dub could be as good as disney.

and dubbing is an art so they can not just line by line translate. that is the reason why i do not like subs.

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07.06.2012, 04:28 AM

saviour2012
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller

@Saddle: You're the last person I expected to hear that from, really. He mentioned on the roof that if he did well on his initial two-month internship, he would go back immediately for a ten-year period.

like
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not immediately ,only if his trainer thinks he is good enough. that is why he had to return because he was not right at that moment. so he will recieve senior high i think(maybe high school too) [i actually do not understand this education system junior high senior high bla bla bla of japan. in my country its quite easy. People can stay at their own school from class 1-10 even 1-12 in the same institutio. each class is one year long. elementery and nursery class. then straight to class 1.class 1-5 is primary , 6-8 is lower secondary(this term is rarely use), the secondary 9-10 and S.S.C. passing the exam will let you study in college in class 11-12. then H.S.C exam. Then the super duper ultra tough university admission test(dont need to give it if you do not want to read in a govt. university and can spend lot in private university). if get passed you are practically taught by govt almost free of charge. if i just say my monthly fees at my uni. you will faint it low that much]
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people should rewatch all the ghibli movies(dust is covering their memories). try to break my world record all titles at least three times each in seven days.

07.06.2012, 04:53 AM

husky51
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I like to watch and read my Ghibli's, but not to that extant. I have other anime and manga and regular, live action movies that i want to see as well as doing other things in my life. I received an email from my friend at the library asking about my absence. I told him that it was caused mainly by work. I stopped by the library today and he showed me some historical maps of our area from early 1900's with a large area platted out with the names of the property owners. It was so fascinating to me to see all these names that i know quite well from my historical work and being able to locate where they were living, etc. I got major goose bumps, I tell you...

I made arrangements with Bill that when he has finished cataloguing the fresh batch of books, etc from descendents of area pioneers that I can take some home with me to study and write up information from them.

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07.06.2012, 05:25 AM

saviour2012
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quote:
Originally posted by husky51
I like to watch and read my Ghibli's, but not to that extant. I have other anime and manga and regular, live action movies that i want to see as well as doing other things in my life.

i did that when i first saw ghibli movies. but i actually like to do things in a row. in this vacation i watched 18 live action movies. i just collect them a watch them in a row.

07.06.2012, 11:24 AM

dballred
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quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
did here anybody(who are commenting) saw that disney version. i do not think so.

seiji ofcourse proposes suzuku to marry him.

the lines that is said by seiji is something like this suzuki do you see us married some day.

dont doubt disney dub man. no other dub could be as good as disney.

and dubbing is an art so they can not just line by line translate. that is the reason why i do not like subs.

I saw the English version--and Seiji did NOT propose to Shizuku as he did in the original version. "Will you marry me" does not equal "Can you see us married?" in anybody's culture. There's a bigger discrepancy that explains why he didn't propose: In the English version he was not going to the violin school UNTIL he finishes high school.

08.13.2012, 12:23 AM

saviour2012
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quote:
Originally posted by dballred
I saw the English version--and Seiji did NOT propose to Shizuku as he did in the original version. "Will you marry me" does not equal "Can you see us married?" in anybody's culture. There's a bigger discrepancy that explains why he didn't propose: In the English version he was not going to the violin school UNTIL he finishes high school.

Are you suggesting that in Japanese version Seizi was not going to high school?

And about marrying part the question was if suzuku was or was not asked to marry seizi. And i think the question was answered. how he asked is a different question.

In my culture that is the way people ask. They do not say Lets Marry. Rather they say it is time to get married. I meant to say direct proposal is not practiced here. Cause we think it is a matter to be shy of. Just like proposing a girl about your love is a matter to be shy of.

And for the record i am an ASIAN.

Post last edited by saviour2012 on 08.13.2012, 04:42 AM.

08.13.2012, 04:38 AM

dballred
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quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
quote:
Originally posted by dballred
I saw the English version--and Seiji did NOT propose to Shizuku as he did in the original version. "Will you marry me" does not equal "Can you see us married?" in anybody's culture. There's a bigger discrepancy that explains why he didn't propose: In the English version he was not going to the violin school UNTIL he finishes high school.

Are you suggesting that in Japanese version Seizi was not going to high school?

And about marrying part the question was if suzuku was or was not asked to marry seizi. And i think the question was answered. how he asked is a different question.

In my culture that is the way people ask. They do not say Lets Marry. Rather they say it is time to get married. I meant to say direct proposal is not practiced here. Cause we think it is a matter to be shy of. Just like proposing a girl about your love is a matter to be shy of.

And for the record i am an ASIAN.

Seiji told Shizuku, when she asked about Cremona, that he was going to go there. That means he will not be attending high school. The English version was totally different. As for his proposal, I quote in Japanese, "Ore to kekkon shite kurenaika?" This is a very direct proposal of marriage--by any standard. "Ore to" means "with me" "kekkon shite" means to marry, and "kurenaika" means 'will you not do me the favor of?' He then followed this that it wouldn't be immediate, but after he finished his violin schooling. She replied, "un," which is a casual form of 'yes,' an acceptance in any culture.

When I first saw the film, this little exchange blew me away. The English version, as a result, was a complete disappointment.

08.14.2012, 01:47 AM

saviour2012
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quote:
Originally posted by dballred
Seiji told Shizuku, when she asked about Cremona, that he was going to go there. That means he will not be attending high school. The English version was totally different. As for his proposal, I quote in Japanese, "Ore to kekkon shite kurenaika?" This is a very direct proposal of marriage--by any standard. "Ore to" means "with me" "kekkon shite" means to marry, and "kurenaika" means 'will you not do me the favor of?' He then followed this that it wouldn't be immediate, but after he finished his violin schooling. She replied, "un," which is a casual form of 'yes,' an acceptance in any culture.

When I first saw the film, this little exchange blew me away. The English version, as a result, was a complete disappointment.

but i think seizi did not performed well enough in cremona at that moment. So he was going to attend high school and then go to cremona.I think you misunderstood.

I do not know japanese. So your sentence technically means ""will you do me a favor marrying me? and then says it will not be anytime soon."

and the english version says do you se us marrying someday?

Now i find a great difficulty to find difference between them.

And another thing i want to be clear about. If the proposal was a common behavior in japan[that is how it is done commonly,read roarkiller's post to see another expression to say that] then according to me the translation is right but if that is special i mean writers and directors sometimes put something special in films and literature which is quite different from the real world if that is the case then the translation was not right. Then will you marry me would be the right translation but i do not think that is the case.

08.14.2012, 06:59 AM

Saddletank
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The Japanese phrase dballred is quoting from the Japanese version of the film is the Japanese method of verbal proposal. In English you'd say "Will you marry me?"

The Disney version "Can you see us being married someday?" is a child-like question many young lovers ask when in reality they do not really mean it, nor have any real prospect of doing so.

Hence the clear difference that the Disney dubbing team introduced to the end of the film.

If your Asian culture prevents you seeing the subtleties of these two different exchanges I can quite understand that, but believe me, they are there and very obvious. In the western (aka Disney dub) world when two people choose to marry it is a private issue between them and most frequently the male proposes verbally in this way. If your culture lacks this social exchange then yes, you possibly might miss some of the significance of the words.

I too, from earlier exchanges Seiji and Shizuku had, understood from the Japanese language version that Seiji had been suddenly offered a place in the Cremona violin school and so was going there immediately, before high school. The two lovers in the film are aged 14 BTW.

In the Disney dub, there is no question Seiji will attend high school because his departure for Cremona is some time in the future, therefore why wouldn't he?

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Post last edited by Saddletank on 08.14.2012, 07:51 AM.

08.14.2012, 07:49 AM

saviour2012
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
I too, from earlier exchanges Seiji and Shizuku had, understood from the Japanese language version that Seiji had been suddenly offered a place in the Cremona violin school and so was going there immediately, before high school. The two lovers in the film are aged 14 BTW.

yes but that was in the roof and he was going there for two month and had to prove himself

but when he returned back he said to suzuku that he was not great enough at that moment and will go cremona again after finishing high school.

08.14.2012, 08:27 AM

Saddletank
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In the Disney dub maybe, not in the Japanese which is the point we are making.

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08.14.2012, 01:00 PM

Roarkiller
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The problem is, Saviour, that Disney's dub version is very different from the original in so many ways.

Disney has to dub in a way that satisfies Studio Ghibli and their own audience. A pair of 14-yr-olds proposing marriage will immediately get lambasted for paedophilia or other random baseless accusations, so Disney has to take the safer route. I think "Only Yesterday" suffered the same thing, and we all know how big a hoo-hah Kiki's underpants caused.

In the Japanese version, it was NEVER made clear whether Seiji passed his evaluation or not, nor was it ever the point. And "Can you see us being married someday?" is not what Seiji said, or meant to say, in the last scene, in any interpretation whatsoever. You can take it from both dballred and me; we're both japanese literate enough.

End point: Disney version =/= Original version.

PS: And dballred, you really like to appear from nowhere, don't you?

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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

08.14.2012, 01:06 PM

dballred
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
The problem is, Saviour, that Disney's dub version is very different from the original in so many ways.

Disney has to dub in a way that satisfies Studio Ghibli and their own audience. A pair of 14-yr-olds proposing marriage will immediately get lambasted for paedophilia or other random baseless accusations, so Disney has to take the safer route. I think "Only Yesterday" suffered the same thing, and we all know how big a hoo-hah Kiki's underpants caused.

In the Japanese version, it was NEVER made clear whether Seiji passed his evaluation or not, nor was it ever the point. And "Can you see us being married someday?" is not what Seiji said, or meant to say, in the last scene, in any interpretation whatsoever. You can take it from both dballred and me; we're both japanese literate enough.

End point: Disney version =/= Original version.

PS: And dballred, you really like to appear from nowhere, don't you?

When it comes to hoo-hahs, don't forget the Totoro bath scene.

What can I say? I like to lurk.

Post last edited by dballred on 08.14.2012, 01:23 PM.

08.14.2012, 01:21 PM

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