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husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12806 |
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saviour quote:
"And Venus de milo of course.( by monalisa i wanted to say that art is not within the outer beauty(so if there is outer beauty shown i will thinko the artist is unable to make art.because he artifacially made the viewers to look at his work because of the over curiosity for sensuality in human"
Now this is one reason why you cannot be reasoned with, IMO. You have made a statement about the lack of ability, of any artist that shows nudity, to be able to depict beauty without making it sensual or erotic. Yes, Venus de Milo is a sensous sculpture, but it illustrates the beauty of the female form in its curves and partial covering with the robes. You, unfortunately, will never see it that way, all it is to you is pornagraphy...
A woman's figure that shows too much skin is damned in your eyes, regardless of the intent of the artist, which YOU can not second guess. YOU have no idea of what the artist is thinking of while he (or she) is working. I can't and you can't.
My inability to show you another viewpoint that you will accept, for others if not yourself, is a stumbling block and game I will not play. I look at the Venus de Milo, (yes, I searched the subject and viewed a number of different images of the statue) and marvel at the work of the artist in revealing the curves of Venus and the draping of the material on her hips and legs. The man was very talented. And no, I was not aroused, nor have i ever been arousd, while viewing works of art. Porn, which I have seen, yes, some of it, but I don't consider porn an art. Some may, but I don't.
Now I know that you will consider yourself the 'winner' of this discussion because I have admitted to the sensuality of the Venus figure. So be it, You win... You, I fear, will never be open to some forms of art that is art for arts sake..
I wonder at your take on the "David" sculpture by Michelangelo... Also a nude (totally in his case), but a male...
I am done with this...
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Post last edited by husky51 on 07.15.2012, 06:07 AM.
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 07.15.2012, 06:02 AM |
   
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Nausicaa_Cat
Baron
Registration Date: 10.02.06
Location:
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Oh god, I am with Husky.
Saviour if you cannot view the Venus de Milo as a beautiful piece of art purely because it displays skin I truly pity you. If you cannot look at that ancient statue and see the talent and passion that went into creating that piece than I don't understand how you can be reasoned with. Artists such as Salvador Dali, Manet, Picasso - all of them have painted nudes at one point. Why do you think art courses have people pose nude for the students to draw? Because the human form should be understood, because art can purify and celebrate without debasing itself.
As I said, some of the best artists that have ever lived have created sensuous and nude paintings, so the idea that nudity implies a lack of talent is ridiculous.
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| 07.15.2012, 08:12 AM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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Michelangelo's David is another example. A completely naked adult male, yet nothing pornographic about it at all.
But we need not go into history to find examples of nudity that are also art. There is a great deal of nude photography and painting today that covers the same subject and isn't going to be found on any of those websites, because. It. Is. Not. Porn.
A naked body is not an inherently bad thing. It is in fact the opposite. Its all about context.
@ Calforsale - I still disagree with you. Nothing in the Girls! thread even borders on hentai. Mainly because I cannot really see that you can have such a state of existence! Something's either hentai or its not, in just the same way we are discussing the line between art and pornography. There is a line and its in different locations to different people but on one side of it lies art and on the other lies something else.
Hentai isn't just nudity in Japanese cartoons, its nudity and other acts depicted in a certain way. As someone else above correctly observed, the picture of the woman in the white dress isn't hentai because of all the effort that has gone into the background, the colouring, the details, the style and the mood. The artist made a conscious effort to present a setting with detail. Hentai really is about the acts and the body parts, nothing more. Like most porn is.
There's a whole huge area of anime that is ecchi and has fanservice and while our Girls! thread occasionally goes there it's still far from hentai.
Of course this is just my view on things, you probably disagree seeing as this thread isn't so much about being naughty, its about disagreeing 
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Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
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| 07.15.2012, 08:20 AM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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before making the post i want to know if you guys are suggesting that the artists who makes naked pictures and want to say those arts were ruluctant towards sex and made the artpiece without thinking of the sexiness of the art. In a broad spectram i want to know do you think these artists did not hold any sexual fantasy towards women. I will explain M.E.'s David along with it.
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Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
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| 07.16.2012, 07:57 AM |
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foreignfilmfreak
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 10.02.06
Location: Japan
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Um, I'm sort of a painter. I'd probably like painting nudes of females, but not made explicitly. I've seen plenty of nudes where I don't get a sexual vibe from, unless they were made to be explicit. A naked body is just that; naked.
I don't hold sexual fantasies toward women either. I just think they're beautiful.
:I *runs away*
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| 07.16.2012, 08:32 AM |
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Nausicaa_Cat
Baron
Registration Date: 10.02.06
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Saviour I'm not saying that not some of these nude paintings were created with sexuality as a theme, but sexuality was not the driving force of the painting. A lot of old paintings featuring nudity surround Ancient Greek myths, where maidens are impregnated by Zeus or raped by Tarquin or whatever, so obviously sex is a theme of the painting but that does not make the painting porn because to provoke sexual excitement was not the intention of the piece.
As well as this I genuinely believe that some nude paintings or artwork are completely unrelated to sex. The naked body is not inherently sexual - as we've discussed there are plenty of communities around the world were nakedness is an accepted state of dress. Even in developed countries like France there are nude beaches, and there are nudist colonies all around the world. It is only those who approach the naked body with a sexual mindset that see it as sexual. To be honest if you can't look at a nude painting without automatically associating it with sex and seeing it as porn that is because of your sexually repressed mind.
I understand that in your culture the naked body is considered a lot more taboo, but in my opinion that's is a social neuroses. People have sex when naked, yes. People also shower and bathe naked. Sometimes I eat naked, or sleep naked. Many things can be done when naked, having sex is just one of them.
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| 07.16.2012, 09:20 AM |
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Orphic Okapi
Baron
Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
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Hate to bring this up again (it was discussed in the Equality of Women thread) but nudity has no inherent connection to sex! It is very possible to have sex while mostly clothed, in fact. The connection is purely cultural. Nudity is highly sexualized in the US, for example, but is generally seen as less sexual in Europe (which probably has something to do with their laxer standards towards nudity in movies). In cultures where nudity is the norm, people are not constantly aroused.
So yes, it is totally possible for an artist to depict nudity without any erotic intent, and it is totally possible for someone to be aroused by that work of art, even if the intent was not erotic! Because nudity only means sex if you think that's what it means. Obviously some people do make that connection, but not everyone does.
EDIT: Nausicaa_Cat beat me and said everything better.
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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 07.16.2012, 09:22 AM.
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| 07.16.2012, 09:21 AM |
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husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12806 |
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| 07.16.2012, 12:03 PM |
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fenkashi
Dibs on Supreme Overlord
Registration Date: 08.12.07
Location: Canada
Posts: 5733 |
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I think this is a silly discussion ^^ mostly because I seem to have missed the discussion where it was decided that liking art for its sensuality is a bad thing.
Also, historically, nudes are known for expressing purity and humanity more often than anything sex related.
Also, also. Go talk to some artists. Maybe some taking a figure drawing class (nude model). Sex has nothing to do with it (figure drawing, that is), it's about deconstructing the body into lines and shapes so it comes out looking like a person on paper.
Last thing, just of interest, nude art seems to exist even in countries where sex and sensuality are quite taboo. Eg: http://www.jolrong.com/viewArt.php?su_id=24 (NSWF).
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Post last edited by fenkashi on 07.16.2012, 01:11 PM.
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| 07.16.2012, 01:10 PM |
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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.03.03
Location: Home, resting...
Posts: 6077 |
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NSWF?
Not Safe While... um... forcinating?
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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| 07.17.2012, 02:25 AM |
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husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12806 |
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| 07.17.2012, 02:41 AM |
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fenkashi
Dibs on Supreme Overlord
Registration Date: 08.12.07
Location: Canada
Posts: 5733 |
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It had to happen in this thread xD
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| 07.17.2012, 03:07 AM |
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husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12806 |
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| 07.17.2012, 09:21 AM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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I prefer Not Safe Work For.
Fen has turned into Yoda 
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Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
Post last edited by Saddletank on 07.17.2012, 12:19 PM.
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| 07.17.2012, 12:19 PM |
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husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12806 |
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| 07.17.2012, 12:40 PM |
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foreignfilmfreak
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 10.02.06
Location: Japan
Posts: 7589 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
NSWF?
Not Safe While... um... forcinating?
I just died.
Darn you for making me snort while laughing like a pig. D:<
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| 07.18.2012, 02:55 PM |
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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.03.03
Location: Home, resting...
Posts: 6077 |
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Sorry for being naughty.
@fen: Yes. Here. This thread. Now.
EDIT: Damnit it FFF, you made me google "laughing pig".
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I am me.
I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.
Roarkiller.net
Isakaya High RPG Site
quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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| 07.19.2012, 04:44 AM |
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foreignfilmfreak
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 10.02.06
Location: Japan
Posts: 7589 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
Sorry for being naughty.
@fen: Yes. Here. This thread. Now.
EDIT: Damnit it FFF, you made me google "laughing pig".
Here's a better question; WHY did you google "laughing pig"?! XD
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| 07.19.2012, 08:16 AM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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To find out how you sounded?
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Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
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| 07.19.2012, 12:51 PM |
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fenkashi
Dibs on Supreme Overlord
Registration Date: 08.12.07
Location: Canada
Posts: 5733 |
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I googled it and it was scary.  Do not recommend.
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| 07.19.2012, 03:00 PM |
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