Ghibli Tavern - Studying in Japan!

Registration Date: 08.15.06
Location: Edinburgh
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The next set of photos will come very soon, but I'd just like to reply to Saddles first!

This isn't something I've really spoken to people about, but based on what I've been told by those who have brought it up with Japanese people, it is largely a matter of habit/tradition. Often people in Japan (and elsewhere in East Asia, where the situation is rather similar) will claim not to be religious at all, and then when somebody brings up the many regular rituals and such that they partake in, it's passed off as tradition.

I wonder how much of this can be traced back to Confucian ideas, which emphasise the importance of ritual participation above real spiritual belief. Another explanation could be the readiness with which Japan and other East Asian countries have historically imported religions and then rather than supplanting previous ones, just mixed and matched as they see fit. There is the sense that people would rather just have a go at everything in case something works, and perhaps that plays a part in making religion seem relatively important.

Anyway, I think the best answer I can give is that it just isn't the same. The approach to religion really is different, and often you just can't compare, because of the way the religions operate as well as how people tend to think. For example, you said "Shinto or Buddism, whichever they follow". Separating them makes perfect sense when you're used to Western religions, but in Japan, people are more likely to follow both or neither.

As for your other question, they are indeed very popular with tourists! It seems to me that as temples are always fairly large, they're very busy with visitors anywhere, so they probably have many people attached to them who keep them nice and clean for those who come to see the temple. Large shrines are the same idea, but there are also little ones you wouldn't even spot. I think those are looked after by families connected to them, or by the local community in general. There are also shrines around temple areas, so they probably all get looked after together.

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Post last edited by arren18 on 11.13.2013, 11:35 AM.

11.13.2013, 11:31 AM

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Alright, more photos!

Continuing from the last ones, we were going around temples and there was one I didn't go into because I figured I'd save my money for later temples. But I still got to see things round about, like this big Buddha:

To show the sheer size of it, here's another picture:

Sadly we didn't plan very well and by the time we left that temple it was already kinda late.

We attempted to go to Kiyomizudera, but by the time we were there it was pretty dark and we had to go and meet somebody. I got some great pictures from up there though!

I'll definitely go there again when I have time to actually go inside.

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11.13.2013, 12:16 PM

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Those night pictures of temples remind me of the closing scene in "Ocean Waves".

Thanks for the reply about religion, as I half suspected the culture and society is different in so many ways that western thinking just can't be applied.

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11.13.2013, 12:35 PM

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good pictures, do please continue when you can...

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11.13.2013, 03:09 PM

Mush
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quote:
What about small shrines and temples in out of the way places off the tourist path? I get a sense that members of the community maintain and respect these with an attitude rarely seen in the west.

Yes, I think that's exactly right.

Although I'm not living there anymore now (sigh...), when I was in Kyoto, one of my favourite activities was to go off the beaten trail where none of the tourist guides pointed. Almost no matter how remote I went, there were always little shrines, always taken care of by some invisible guardian. I imagine some army of old ladies waking up at sunrise each morning, climbing the unmarked mountain trails and sweeping the little wood-and-stone altars at the top, clapping their hands and bowing, then walking back down to start the day.

It was one of the most appealing and magical things about Japan that I just can't find at all in North America... stumbling upon one of these places unexpectedly, sometimes in a quiet residential laneway, sometimes in a totally unpopulated area. It made the whole landscape seem alive and full of secrets.

There definitely were also landmark temples that were major tourist attractions (such as Kiyomizu), but there are also less grand but still beautiful ones where the visitors weren't lining up in organized groups or carrying cameras.

Another wonderful thing was how a small battalion of young men would, on certain days, dress up in traditional outfits and parade through the streets, chanting energetically and carrying various things, to celebrate the birthday of the deity housed in a particular shrine in that neighbourhood. I was amazed at how un-apathetic they all were when it came to these kinds of religious traditions.

It's true that the Japanese people I speak to also say that they aren't religious and they don't know anybody who is. So whether they actually believe in the superstitious elements (keeping the neighbourhood deity appeased brings good luck) or just consider it a fun traditional activity distinct from religious aspects (like exchanging gifts with family around a Christmas tree) or not, I'm not sure. Or maybe the distinction is really artificial. But I never got the impression that anyone was cynically faking their enthusiasm for the sake of entertaining little kids or anything like that, like with Santa Claus. They were really into it.

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Post last edited by Mush on 11.13.2013, 11:22 PM.

11.13.2013, 11:03 PM

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Oh, I've remembered some other photos I meant to post already. One day I was in one of the main shopping areas in town, looking around these arcade streets where there were shops of all sorts. Anyway, along here we stumbled upon a temple! I took some pictures because it seemed so out-of-place there.

The last image is from the top of the steps leading up to the temple itself, showing the shopping area beyond the gate.

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11.25.2013, 10:29 AM

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What are those pieces of cloth hanging from the upright pillars in the first picture? I've seen the streamers of paper shapes which I understand are some kind of protective wards or prayers but those look like bags you'd put your clothes pegs in! Or maybe kneeling cushions?

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11.25.2013, 12:18 PM

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Possibly offerings of some sort, but what for, I haven't a clue...

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11.25.2013, 02:28 PM

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I'm afraid I don't have an answer to that! I get the impression they're a part of that little shrine, so it's probably along the lines of the paper streamers. The whole thing is much too small for them to be anything like cushions.

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11.25.2013, 11:09 PM

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possibly aprons of some sort?

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11.26.2013, 02:25 AM

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Again, I'd suggest they're too small for that. This shrine was just a little structure next to the big temple.

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11.26.2013, 05:32 AM

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Like someone else suggested, I can only think of offerings then, it must be something peculiar to that particular shrine (cloth bags or mats or aprons or whatever they are).

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Post last edited by Saddletank on 11.26.2013, 10:11 AM.

11.26.2013, 10:10 AM

Roarkiller
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Buddhism/shintoism is honestly very very vague, even messy, from the viewpoint of an outsider.

Rather than saying that it's due to religion or tradition, it's more to do with superstition. Because shintoism believes that a god resides is literally everything, anything and everything can be deified. Often this explains a large number of the smaller shrines. You'll also find shrines built in places where some sort of event occurred.

Another reason also seen in buddhism (or taoism) for building a shrine is far less mystic: it's more convenient to build a small shrine there to pray than to go to a bigger temple.

For small shrines within bigger temples, many times it's due to it being for a lesser deity.

Just my 2c based on my feeble knowledge of such culture.

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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

11.26.2013, 10:16 AM

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*nods nods* Yeah, when I said 'peculiar to that particular shrine' I meant because of the deity its dedicated to. Ugh, I'm so unclear on the stuff that spews outta my head.

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"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)

11.26.2013, 10:30 AM

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I understood you Saddles. But yes, as Roar says, since there can be a deity for anything and everything, it's difficult to say, and in this case I honestly don't know. Sorry I couldn't really shed any light on that detail!

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11.26.2013, 10:58 AM

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I mentioned elsewhere that I went to Osaka last Saturday. I forgot my camera so I couldn't take the best pictures, but I was able to get some with my phone at least. So here are a few of those.

Soon I'll also add some pictures I took in Nara. There are a lot more of those so I might try to space them out a bit.

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12.08.2013, 01:00 PM

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Is Osaka well known for its canals?

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"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)

12.08.2013, 03:50 PM

Registration Date: 03.17.08
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What were the soldiers fighting... I mean, who were they...

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12.08.2013, 06:46 PM