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saviour2012
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 01.19.2014, 03:22 PM |
    
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arren18
Administrator
Registration Date: 08.15.06
Location: Edinburgh
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Good. It isn't more dangerous than alcohol.
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| 01.19.2014, 10:33 PM |
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Orphic Okapi
Baron
Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
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What he said makes perfect sense and I agree with almost every word of it. If alcohol and cigarettes are legal, there is absolutely no reason marijuana should not also be legal.
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| 01.19.2014, 10:53 PM |
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Calforsale
Totoro
Registration Date: 01.19.10
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Yeah i agree with the others, there is lots of evidence that marijuana isn't worse than alcohol or cigarettes, and has many medicinal purposes.
Its taken a lot anyway i many countries even when its legal. Its much better to have it legal and regulated, so the government can tax it and try to limit quantities of usage.
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| 01.20.2014, 01:01 AM |
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foreignfilmfreak
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 10.02.06
Location: Japan
Posts: 7589 |
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I don't see any reason wrong with it, because I'd love for people to stop shoving it in my face all the time or talking about it all the time if making it legal would make them stop. Then again, alcohol is legal and they still like to shove that.. I'd just prefer my apartment building not to smell like it's been infested by a parade of skunks (which it does 3/4s of the time even without it being legal).
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| 01.20.2014, 01:15 AM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
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answer if you want, those who are taking it positively. I want to ask how many of you have taken(inhaled or whatever) it.
I dont want to interfere with your personal matters i just want to know if consuming it effected your judgement.
its ganja!!!!! guys. i understand many differences between cultures but something that is in so many ways injurious to health i dont see how that can be legal. and its not my view as a muslim. islam prohibits any kind of intoxication by any kind of material unless it is done for medical treatment.
this drug is from asia and people used it here for various reason[all reasons are bad and stupid].
and it is almost hundred percent sure that people who take it regularly will try to take other drugs such as cocaine, morphine ,LSD ,heroine upon availability and his wealth. many of these has medical purpose too. lets unban them too.
But its not true that its same as cigarrete. search google and medical directories.
and it is legalized because of this
quote:
It is believed to generate an estimated $36 billion market in US
we should fight against drug rather than embrace it.
a good link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars
[has west businesses fallen so hard that it will start doing bad businesses again?]
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Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 01.20.2014, 04:36 AM.
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| 01.20.2014, 03:20 AM |
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husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
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| 01.20.2014, 04:33 AM |
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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.03.03
Location: Home, resting...
Posts: 6077 |
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As long as people have this belief that so-and-so is not addictive, not bad when taken in moderation, not as dangerous as other substances, they will always believe that whatever they are taking in is not harmful and should be made legal.
It doesn't matter that there are hundreds of medical reports listing the dangers of taking such substances.
It doesn't matter that there are thousands of people and communities suffering from its existence.
It doesn't matter that any perceived "benefits" are far outweighed by the negatives.
We already live in a world where milk causes cancer and soybeans causes virility and should be restricted, while red wine and chocolate are both good for the heart and are encouraged.
We already live in a world where it's okay to consume large amount of food and drink without care, and displace entire villages to build dams for the good of the majority.
It doesn't matter.
Because that's just human nature.
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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| 01.20.2014, 04:50 AM |
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husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
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| 01.20.2014, 05:20 AM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
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I have to say that the line "no more dangerous than alcohol" says two things:
1) Alcohol is dangerous
2) These drugs are just as bad
So rather than adding a second wrong, why not classify alcohol as a drug and make it illegal too?
And tobacco as well since that's a proven killer.
These would be the morally correct things to do, however we live in an amoral society and given how the banning of alcohol actually increased crime significantly in America in the 1920s its clear than making it illegal would have serious consequences. The issue is also that many people partake alcohol responsibly and moderately and a huge industry (pubs, restaurants, hotels) relies on it as a product and income source.
Politicians have been trying to ban tobacco for decades, removing at leat its advertising but the tobacco companies are huge and insidious and powerful businesses and some even pay politicians so its a dangerous game to play against them.
Given the monstrous mess that alcohol and tobacco cause in society I am quite frankly not sure that legalising marujana is at all significant. Its been legal in the Netherlands for many years and doesn't seem to have caused a problem there.
And yes, I partook of marujana in my youth a few times at parties.
quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
and it is almost hundred percent sure that people who take it regularly will try to take other drugs such as cocaine, morphine ,LSD ,heroine upon availability and his wealth.
Statements like these don't help, they are unproven and merely your opinion. There's no suggestion whatever that marujana users will then take harder drugs. What causes a person to take any drugs of any kind are their personal circumstances and the influences they are facing around them at the time. In the 1960s when LSD became fashionable in Britain, people went straight onto that.
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Post last edited by Saddletank on 01.20.2014, 06:08 AM.
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| 01.20.2014, 06:04 AM |
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Orphic Okapi
Baron
Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1335 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
It doesn't matter that there are thousands of people and communities suffering from its existence.
You know what causes a lot of suffering to communities, more than almost any drug the world has ever known? The illegal drug trade, which results in hundreds of murders worldwide on a daily basis. You know why this trade exists? Because drugs are illegal. Really, that's it. If all drugs were made legal, this incredibly destructive trade would have nowhere to flourish. Wealthy governments could easily undercut current drug costs to the point where no illegal drug lord would have any way to compete, toppling their empires and saving potentially millions of lives. Plus, if drugs are legal, they can be regulated for safety, resulting in fewer accidental deaths for drug users.
Personally I have no interest in drug use. I don't even drink alcohol (which I believe is ten times more dangerous than marijuana, and only legal due to cultural bias). But anyone who thinks widespread drug use is a recent trend signifying the end of Western civilization has clearly never cracked a history book. As long as there have been people, people have been using drugs, in every corner of the globe. As long as drugs exist, it is a hundred times safer for everyone if they are legal.
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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 01.20.2014, 06:54 AM.
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| 01.20.2014, 06:52 AM |
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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.03.03
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@husky: No, you're pretty clear. The problem is that governments aren't making this part clear. In fact, the way I see it, they're legalising it so less people will be convicted for it, and hence less people in jail.
@Orphic: I both agree and disagree with you (yes, I've read the history books).
The problem is that the issue is a "damned if we do damned if we don't" issue, where no matter which route society takes, there will always be its own unique set of issues.
On one hand, very few (level-headed) people can confidently say that any of these drugs, including alcohol and tobacco, are beneficial to the human body and society in general. This is why bills are passed to ban or control the consumption of narcotics, and as you rightly put it, the reason why drug rings are in wide existence.
On the other hand, you have to understand as well that narcotics would not have been banned if their dangers weren't recognized in the first place. Parts of Alaska, for example, are facing serious community problems because alcohol is ruining the community, with or without the ban. Likewise, opium deaths were very widespread in Asia, and later Europe. Legalising the drug would kill drug rings, but will also cause widespread addiction problems because the drugs are so easy to get, similar to alcohol and gambling.
Also, saying that the government can control the narcotics is too optimistic a view. The age ban on alcohol and tobacco hasn't stopped kids from drinking or smoking.
So in summary, it's really a question of whether the government wishes to allow crime to grow or for narcotics use to grow. Both ways obviously will affect society in a bad way.
It's an incredibly complex dilemma.
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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| 01.20.2014, 07:15 AM |
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fenkashi
Dibs on Supreme Overlord
Registration Date: 08.12.07
Location: Canada
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Legalize, regulate, and let consenting adults make their own decisions where they don't infringe of the freedoms of others.
We should be mindful of making society "safe and healthy" and protecting us from ourselves. That way lies dystopia.
Drugs are pretty much as old as human beings, and even remote societies use their own versions. Might as well make it them as safe as possible for everyone. With recreational drug use being illegal for the large part, even doing studies to test the safety of such drugs are undermined.
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| 01.20.2014, 07:20 AM |
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Calforsale
Totoro
Registration Date: 01.19.10
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 866 |
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I'm just wondering Saviour, do you think cigarettes are okay?
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| 01.20.2014, 07:51 AM |
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Orphic Okapi
Baron
Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1335 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
@husky: No, you're pretty clear. The problem is that governments aren't making this part clear. In fact, the way I see it, they're legalising it so less people will be convicted for it, and hence less people in jail.
Considering the US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world and it's done absolutely nothing to prevent drug use, I'd say this is a good thing.
quote:
On one hand, very few (level-headed) people can confidently say that any of these drugs, including alcohol and tobacco, are beneficial to the human body and society in general.
Except, well, some of them are. Morphine is basically just opium, and it's widely used medicinally. I know someone whose child suffers from severe epilepsy; the ONLY thing that has reliably reduced the frequency of her seizures has been...you guessed it, medical marijuana.
quote:
On the other hand, you have to understand as well that narcotics would not have been banned if their dangers weren't recognized in the first place. Parts of Alaska, for example, are facing serious community problems because alcohol is ruining the community, with or without the ban.
Exactly. With or without the ban. Would banning alcohol in Alaska have a positive impact on the community there? I'm not so sure that it would. But the very fact that it ISN'T banned (while other drugs NOT plaguing the community are) suggests that governments don't really have safety or the wellbeing of society in mind when they choose to allow certain drugs and make others illegal. It's usually a totally irrational decision based on money and cultural traditions.
Also, it is a fact that marijuana is not an addictive substance. That's not a myth propagated by potheads, it's science. So even if marijuana were legalized I don't think there'd be a huge spike in addiction. Other substances, like methamphetamines, are a different story.
quote:
Also, saying that the government can control the narcotics is too optimistic a view. The age ban on alcohol and tobacco hasn't stopped kids from drinking or smoking.
I'm not saying the government has the power to prevent anyone from using a given drug. But they can ensure that people KNOW what drug they are consuming, which prevents a lot of overdoses. Think about how many more people would die from alcohol poisoning if they didn't even know the proof of what they were drinking.
quote:
So in summary, it's really a question of whether the government wishes to allow crime to grow or for narcotics use to grow. Both ways obviously will affect society in a bad way.
From my own experience, I don't think making a drug legal will increase it's overall consumption. In my high school, almost every single student drank alcohol on a regular basis, despite the fact that it was against the law. If it had been legal for them to drink, I doubt the number of students who drank would have increased by much...maaaaybe one or two.
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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 01.20.2014, 08:13 AM.
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| 01.20.2014, 08:07 AM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Legalize, regulate, and let consenting adults make their own decisions where they don't infringe of the freedoms of others.
this has been my central principle of discussion for the last two years. i do not like this idea at all. this idea feels like that if i do something bad then any of my friends or family wont stop me. that means i just have to depend on my judgement all the time. but i can be wrong too. so a little bit help could actually save me from the mistake.
quote:
saddle wrote
These would be the morally correct things to do, however we live in an amoral society and given how the banning of alcohol actually increased crime significantly in America in the 1920s its clear than making it illegal would have serious consequences. The issue is also that many people partake alcohol responsibly and moderately and a huge industry (pubs, restaurants, hotels) relies on it as a product and income source. Politicians have been trying to ban tobacco for decades, removing at leat its advertising but the tobacco companies are huge and insidious and powerful businesses and some even pay politicians so its a dangerous game to play against them.
orphic wrote
You know what causes a lot of suffering to communities, more than almost any drug the world has ever known? The illegal drug trade, which results in hundreds of murders worldwide on a daily basis. You know why this trade exists? Because drugs are illegal. Really, that's it. If all drugs were made legal, this incredibly destructive trade would have nowhere to flourish. Wealthy governments could easily undercut current drug costs to the point where no illegal drug lord would have any way to compete, toppling their empires and saving potentially millions of lives. Plus, if drugs are legal, they can be regulated for safety, resulting in fewer accidental deaths for drug users.
then why dont just give away the country to talibans. your argument is like a proverb in my country that says "Cut the head for treating headache". if loosing war against drug lords is hard then US should involve all his resources for fighting it [i said before drug is a much bigger problem for us].
quote:
roar wrote The problem is that governments aren't making this part clear. In fact, the way I see it, they're legalising it so less people will be convicted for it, and hence less people in jail.
Obama actually said that if the majority of the people had broken a law the lets just make it the law. it is like saying if majority thinks killing/raping/stealing is correct then it will be correct.
quote:
the government can control the narcotics is too optimistic a view
yes and no.
here in my country you will find it hard to buy drugs. LSD,yaba is popular within high class. and you know what teknaf[a small town in bangladesh adjacent to the sea] is the major point of trafficing drugs. Dealers and drug lords from all over the world come here and do business in the sea. these things comes from thailand and go to dubai, america bla bla bla.[heard from a native when i visited teknaf] the matter is definitely demand in my country islam and social bond is so strong that even if you want you probably cant take it. in my university many of my fellows classmates started taking cigarettes, drugs and alcohol[which has just destroyed their carrier] because in campus their parents wont be with them. but they hardly can do it publicly cause it will just make them expelled from the university. and specially this view of the society that drugs alcohol is wrong and is not acceptable made majority of the people not to take it. i dont think usa tried to do that at all.
quote:
orphic wrote
governments don't really have safety or the wellbeing of society in mind when they choose to allow certain drugs and make others illegal. It's usually a totally irrational decision based on money and cultural traditions.
this i agree
quote:
orphic wrote
Would banning alcohol in Alaska have a positive impact on the community there? I'm not so sure that it would.
right now it would not. if it was before then i have to say yes. see the difference between indian subcontinent, asia and west[before and after the unbanning process].
quote:
calforsale wrote
I'm just wondering Saviour, do you think cigarettes are okay?
no ofcourse not. its very very bad. but marijuana is even more bad.
but i have known both kind of people, marijuana takers is much worse specially when they take it. the affects are much more prevalent.
quote:
orphic wrote
it is a fact that marijuana is not an addictive substance. That's not a myth propagated by potheads, it's science.
it is not a science it is called a scientific consensus and it is not unanimous. the long term effects is still unknown. the term addiction is a debated topic among medical researchers.
quote:
Statements like these don't help, they are unproven and merely your opinion. There's no suggestion whatever that marujana users will then take harder drugs. What causes a person to take any drugs of any kind are their personal circumstances and the influences they are facing around them at the time. In the 1960s when LSD became fashionable in Britain, people went straight onto that.
it is not a personal opinion,your one is.[i have said that i will give a personal opinion mark where it applies][the term "almost hundred percent" is based on experience that the drug takers i have come across]
when i searched[when i found that people say cigarettes to be as bad as marijuana to make it look like that marijuana is acceptable] for pro-marijuana[vs cigarettes] journals i found this
"It is possible that as the cannabis-consuming population ages, the long-term consequences of smoking cannabis may become more similar to what is observed with tobacco."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/
@saddle
i can show you
1.survey based statistics
2.scientific journals
showing a large number of people did come to consumption of the hard drugs through marijuana.
just let me know i think ten acclaimed one will be enough.
this topic saddens me so i wont post any new post but will answer if anyone replies to my post
edit:
when we talk about the medicinal properties of a thing, we should know why it is used and about the properties of its active ingredients and its effect and side affects.
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 01.20.2014, 10:26 AM.
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| 01.20.2014, 09:53 AM |
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arren18
Administrator
Registration Date: 08.15.06
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 10665 |
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Considering you put down Orphic's point about the scientific consensus so quickly and said that the long-term effects aren't known, you seem awfully confident in your repeated assertions that it's such a dangerous thing.
Truly, the most dangerous aspects of illegal drugs are the crime that surrounds them and the lack of regulation. Because they are illegal, those that seek them must go to people connected with smuggling, which inevitably is associated with organised crime. Allowing average people to fund gangsters isn't going to solve any problems. You gave the headache analogy (confusingly linked to the Taliban?), but I would suggest it's better to use the analogy of treating the cause instead of the symptoms. If you just keep attempting to fight organised criminals when all the while they're getting more money and resources, it won't actually solve the problem, but if you cut off that money supply, they will be weakened much more seriously.
Because there is no regulation on these substances, people don't know what they're actually getting. What they buy from dealers may not be trustworthy, and often the other, more dangerous things contained in these variations can cause big problems. There are various rules on what goes into other consumer products, but obviously no such rules on illegal things.
Consider also the problems for drug addicts. If they have an addiction, the only way for them to fuel the addiction is to go to these potentially dangerous people, and the worse their condition becomes, the more seriously they might get involved with organised crime. Also, if something that's causing you a problem is against the law, you would of course be far less inclined to seek legitimate assistance. If they were legal then people could get help with their problems without fear of either the law or criminals.
I notice you've compared the crime of taking illegal drugs to extremely serious things - I mentioned the Taliban comment already, but you also came up with murder, rape and theft. Do you honestly consider drug use to be somehow equivalent to those?
And since you asked, I've tried it. I lived to tell the tale.
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Post last edited by arren18 on 01.20.2014, 10:12 AM.
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| 01.20.2014, 10:12 AM |
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Mush
Baron
Registration Date: 07.30.07
Location: South of Canada
Posts: 1810 |
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Drugs are bad. Don't use them.
I agree a lot with Fen's philosophy that consenting adults can decide what to do if it doesn't harm other people. But Saviour has a very good point that it's easy to make bad decisions you'll later regret if there's a tacit endorsement of those decisions by society. Not everyone using drugs is a responsible adult who understands the consequences of using drugs.
And I don't look forward to seeing headlines of car accidents caused by drivers who were high on marijuana. Not that that's any worse than drunk driving, mind you.
I do wonder about legalization, though. I wonder whether it will increase the amount of drugs consumed, or whether it might not do that. It seems like the drugs being illegal has not been an effective deterrent so far, maybe because if someone is irresponsible enough to be using drugs, they aren't thinking about potential negative consequences already. They probably don't imagine themselves getting arrested, just like they probably don't imagine themselves becoming addicted. (I actually do think that marijuana might be an addictive substance, not least because I have a friend who struggled with quitting. I haven't read the latest research though).
Also, criminalization of drugs does have severe societal consequences of its own, possibly as bad as the consequences of drug consumption itself. For example, a lot of young people end up in prison. At that point, those kids' lives are effectively condemned -- the chances that they'll go on to become productive members of society (let alone president of the USA) are significantly lower, and the chances they'll become criminals goes way up. It doesn't help that there's a major racial bias in the USA regarding who ends up in prison for using drugs. And criminalization spawns a black market that supports criminal gangs and smugglers, which leads to a major increase in violence.
So, anyway, I don't know for sure whether it's a good thing or not. I think there's a strong enough argument in favour of legalization that it would be worth experimenting with the policy to actually measure the outcomes and see what happens. The nice thing about this kind of issue is that it can be tested and, if it turns out to be a bad idea, the drugs can be made illegal again.
Sort of like how they experimented with making alcohol illegal in the 1920s.
Along a somewhat-related note, in Vancouver we introduced a safe-injection program, which was a clinic run by the government that offered a safe place for cocaine addicts to inject drugs. Although the drugs themselves are still illegal, the main problem was that addicts were sharing contaminated needles and contracting terrible diseases like HIV. The program was very controversial and has been closely studied since its introduction, but overall the results have been extremely positive. Drug use has not increased, and addicts are dying less and committing fewer crimes. The police have been strongly supportive of the program.
Basically, it's a complicated issue -- even if you're strongly opposed to drug use (like I am), it doesn't necessarily mean that legalization is a bad policy decision.
Edit: Sorry that I haven't had time to read this full thread and take everyone's argument into account. Hopefully I can come back to it later. 
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Post last edited by Mush on 01.20.2014, 10:36 AM.
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| 01.20.2014, 10:24 AM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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quote:
Originally posted by arren18
Considering you put down Orphic's point about the scientific consensus so quickly and said that the long-term effects aren't known, you seem awfully confident in your repeated assertions that it's such a dangerous thing.
the debated consensus is about it's being addictive not being dangerous [its dangerous all the way and well known]
@mush
i think i agree with what you say. with one exception fight against drugs or anything bad can be won. i can see it cause i live in a country where there is not such a thing called accident because of drunkenness. and the drug problem is not mainstream. but the affects can be seen. in a family where even a single person became addicted it has been a disaster for the family. one have to look after your kids. what they do, who they mix with etc. and it will take me to the issue that who will do that [mom or dad]. in asia most moms do this sacrifice for the sake of their children. as a result they enjoy a fairly stable happy life. in west as carrier and money implies a lot to a person and where family bond,sacrifices is not well known any person is not ready to do that. so their kids have more chance to mingle with bad people.
[i am talking about the scenario here. i agree that women can do a job, she can have a carrier too. one just have to distribute the load. but one thing is important even though in asia fathers go to work it does not mean carrier comes first. it is always family. but in west most of the time its carrier so both of them dont care what happens to their children][it is a personal opinion based on observation]
quote:
Also, criminalization of drugs does have severe societal consequences of its own, possibly as bad as the consequences of drug consumption itself. For example, a lot of young people end up in prison. At that point, those kids' lives are effectively condemned -- the chances that they'll go on to become productive members of society (let alone president of the USA) are significantly lower, and the chances they'll become criminals goes way up.
now this problem is social.[again] and have to be addressed socially. other than rich brats[who dont have any other works than to waste money] people who do regularly take these things do suffer from some kind of social problems[depression, family problems, broken family, .
as i said almost thousand of times a social crime[sin] is a crime too, and these things cause things like
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
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| 01.20.2014, 12:04 PM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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quote:
Originally posted by arren18
Considering you put down Orphic's point about the scientific consensus so quickly and said that the long-term effects aren't known, you seem awfully confident in your repeated assertions that it's such a dangerous thing.
I notice you've compared the crime of taking illegal drugs to extremely serious things - I mentioned the Taliban comment already, but you also came up with murder, rape and theft. Do you honestly consider drug use to be somehow equivalent to those?
And since you asked, I've tried it. I lived to tell the tale.
the scientific consensus is about it's addictiveness not if its dangerous
and yes i do think that taking drug is something that can take to to those routes of crime.
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 01.20.2014, 02:13 PM.
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| 01.20.2014, 12:05 PM |
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Online Ghibli
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So drugs are getting legal excellent
