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Roarkiller
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quote:
Originally posted by arren18 As much as I like Miyazaki's films, they tend to follow similar lines, so it'll be nice to see something a little more unusual.
I second that, but I doubt it, going by the information so far. In fact I get the feeling that it'll have the same feel as a mash-up of Porco Rosso and GoTF. I'd even go so far as to say it would be like a Porco Rosso prequel set in Japan.
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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 07.07.2013, 01:12 AM |
   
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arren18
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
a mash-up of Porco Rosso and GoTF.
Well, that alone makes it sound like an atypical Miyazaki film.  Anyway, I'm interested to see it.
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| 07.07.2013, 03:51 AM |
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saviour2012
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i do not know if you guys noticed or not but all the miyazaki masterpiece [novow,pm,mnt,lcits] has atleast one grand action scene. where all the characters can be found.
otherwise it is not a ,miyazaki masterpiece
still it will be better than almost any other movie if miyazaki did not lost it
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Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
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| 07.07.2013, 04:02 AM |
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Orphic Okapi
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Um, does My Neighbor Totoro really contain a "grand action scene"?
Miyazaki can do action well, but I don't think he's as interested in traditional adventure movie tropes as he was when he was younger. Considering the source material for this movie, I wouldn't count on there being much in the way of action.
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| 07.07.2013, 04:36 AM |
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Saddletank
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quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
Um, does My Neighbor Totoro really contain a "grand action scene"?
Yes. I'd say it was the drama scene at the end where Mai went missing.
Nausicaa, Laputa, Kiki, Porco, Howl, Spirited Away all have them, or climatic emotional events that close the story telling. Its such an ingrained mechanism in storytelling I wouldn't degrade it by calling it a trope at all. Its how almost all narratives are told, transcending societies and cultures.
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| 07.07.2013, 09:48 AM |
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saviour2012
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
Yes. I'd say it was the drama scene at the end where Mai went missing.
Nausicaa, Laputa, Kiki, Porco, Howl, Spirited Away all have them, or climatic emotional events that close the story telling. Its such an ingrained mechanism in storytelling I wouldn't degrade it by calling it a trope at all. Its how almost all narratives are told, transcending societies and cultures.
agreed 100%
yes i was also talking about that scene in [mnt]
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Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 07.07.2013, 12:34 PM.
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| 07.07.2013, 12:34 PM |
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Orphic Okapi
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
Yes. I'd say it was the drama scene at the end where Mai went missing.
Nausicaa, Laputa, Kiki, Porco, Howl, Spirited Away all have them, or climatic emotional events that close the story telling. Its such an ingrained mechanism in storytelling I wouldn't degrade it by calling it a trope at all. Its how almost all narratives are told, transcending societies and cultures.
You guys must have a really loose definition of "action scene." I wouldn't say a climactic emotional event has to be an action scene at all. What's the climax of Spirited Away? Chihiro flies on Haku, remembers his name, and then completes Yubaba's final test in order to go home. Nothing actiony about it, and yet it's effective. I wouldn't call the scene where Mei goes missing an action scene either, unless your definition of action scene is "a scene where something dramatic happens." In that case, uh yeah, all stories have stuff happen in them, I would agree.
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| 07.07.2013, 05:27 PM |
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arren18
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Yeah, I was thinking the same as Orphic. "Climactic emotional event" doesn't necessarily imply action scene, and if it does, then are you saying that what makes Miyazaki's films so special is that they have something most stories have?
Some of his films do have spectacular action scenes, and some don't. I'm not sure there's a particular key element to everything he's done, but there are definitely recurring themes (nature, nostalgia, etc). And I certainly think Kaze Tachinu could turn out to be up there with his classics, even without a big action scene! However, until I see it for myself, I can't really comment.
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| 07.07.2013, 05:52 PM |
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Saddletank
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Climactic emotional event, yes. That's what I meant. It can include action or not, though I am not sure what the definition of 'action' is. It certainly isn't expolsions, gunfire and Bond finally taking down the world-dominating bad guy. I think you can have action events that are far less explosive but still count as action.
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| 07.08.2013, 02:35 PM |
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husky51
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| 07.08.2013, 05:17 PM |
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Orphic Okapi
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
Climactic emotional event, yes. That's what I meant. It can include action or not, though I am not sure what the definition of 'action' is. It certainly isn't expolsions, gunfire and Bond finally taking down the world-dominating bad guy. I think you can have action events that are far less explosive but still count as action.
It's pretty clear we actually agree and are just having a silly debate over semantics at this point. In my defense, I think "action scene" does usually imply the kind of James Bond stuff Husky describes. That's why the term "action movie" refers to a specific genre, rather than every movie ever made. I would say Miyazaki has done movies within the action genre, or at least close to it; Laputa and Lupin III come to mind, and arguments could probably be made for Nausicaa and Mononoke. These are all far from the stereotypical dumb action movie full of explosions and one-liners, but they do have intense plots involving lots of fighting and suspense. (And yes, some of them do have explosions.) There's no reason an action movie has to be totally mindless.
I also want to reiterate Arren's point, which is that if every movie involves some sort of climactic emotional event, Saviour's original statement seems a little nonsensical. It's like saying, "I don't know if you noticed, but every Miyazaki masterpiece has characters. Otherwise it's not a Miyazaki masterpiece. I sure hope he remembered to put some characters in this new film."
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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 07.08.2013, 11:11 PM.
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| 07.08.2013, 11:10 PM |
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saviour2012
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quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
I also want to reiterate Arren's point, which is that if every movie involves some sort of climactic emotional event, Saviour's original statement seems a little nonsensical. It's like saying, "I don't know if you noticed, but every Miyazaki masterpiece has characters. Otherwise it's not a Miyazaki masterpiece. I sure hope he remembered to put some characters in this new film."
yes . you are again going around the point. art is by definition reiterative because something truly unique is something created by Allah. So even though many movie has that element [by your definition climatic emotional event by my definition grand action sequence and action means doing something not exploding] the style will be different according to the director. That is where the movie will differentiate from other. how well that sequence was delivered to the viewers and how they take it what they make of it, that will be its unique characteristics
kiki - where ballon exploded is a major action involving many people
i do not consider it to be a Miyazaki Masterpiece as it is not quite serious
spirited away- haku was attacked and was seriously injured now it is a movie which more towards smaller children so this a great action sequence. Although it got oscar but that does not make it a Miyazaki Masterpiece. it is 90% masterpiece. i would have called it a master piece if something life changing really happened to chihiro. like she needed to go back to the real world alone.
Porco-Rosso: sorry,saddletank although i like this movie very much and it does have a action sequence but is not very grand involving life death situation.so i do not consider it a miyazaki masterpiece [might do when i am a bit older]
other examples are not given as i think you got the point.
so there are actually only two movie that fall in that category novow and pm. both fall in the class epic movie.
however Miyazaki movies must have atleast one great[if grand then it is a masterpiece] action sequence to be a great movie like hmc,kds,sa,pr etc. the counter example is ponyo which is considered to bad as it has nothing like that.
before you say anything i want to say it is about miyazaki i am discussing not about any other director. such as takahata's style is delivering a emotional picture of a situation. without that it is not a masterpiece. so pompoko[not sure i have not seen it] is not a masterpiece where action involved more importance.
and masterpieces are something that defines an artist truly i think those two movies fall in that category
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Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 07.09.2013, 04:44 AM.
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| 07.09.2013, 04:31 AM |
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Orphic Okapi
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Thanks for elaborating on your views, although I still can't say I agree with them. Miyazaki may be only one artist, but he's capable of making more than one kind of movie, and so to judge every one of his films by the same standard (and a weird one at that - whether or not it has some grand life or death situation) seems bizarre to me. Now it sounds like you really are saying that for a Miyazaki movie to be a masterpiece, it has to have a huge, action-movie-style set piece.
This does bring up an interesting question: which Miyazaki films would you classify as masterpieces, and why? I'm not sure I have an answer. I think Totoro might become the movie he is most remembered for, and it does strike me as a more or less perfect film for what it sets out to accomplish. By which I mean, it's a small story, nothing epic or hugely dramatic about it, but in its own way it is magical, profound, and unforgettable. It feels like a classic.
My personal favorite has long been Porco Rosso, though I haven't seen it in a long time, so maybe it's due for a reassessment. Seems like his most personal to me, a movie only Miyazaki could have made. A movie so wholly and unapologetically itself, with its weird and yet perfectly balanced blend of elements, it's almost beyond criticism.
I read an interesting tidbit recently about how Western critics tend to consider Miyazaki's more recent work his best (Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke), while Japanese critics usually cite his earliest works, like Nausicaa and Laputa. It's funny because Western critics do the exact same thing with Western animators, like calling Snow White and the Seven Dwarves the greatest animated film of all time just because it was the first full-length one.
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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 07.09.2013, 05:23 AM.
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| 07.09.2013, 05:18 AM |
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arren18
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Again, I'm on Orphic's side. It seems unfair to judge each of Miyazaki's films based on whether they contain a particular important scene - after all, what if he were to make a film that had one spectacular and impressive scene, but the rest of it were terrible? The point I made before this discussion was that I was pleased to hear that this sounded different from his other work, which tends towards the same story types. So for me, if the new film is unlike his usual output, that's great! And so I intend to judge it based on its own merits.
To answer Orphic's question, I'm not sure really! For me, Spirited Away stands out, as it seems to achieve a good middle ground between his quiet, more child-targeted works like Totoro, and the exciting adventurey ones - and it also manages to be something a little different from the others. Then again, part of it might also just be that it was the first I saw! The only one I've seen (I still haven't got around to watching Porco Rosso or Ponyo) that I think is a bit weak compared to the others is Howl's Moving Castle. Is there some magical element that is missing from it? I've no idea.
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| 07.09.2013, 07:42 AM |
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Saddletank
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The climactic and important event in Porco Rosso is the man finding himself, understanding himself, seeing his own weaknesses and becoming a better person because of that. There's a colossal spiritual breakthrough at the end for him I think; he also finds true love. The story is about him. Its not called "Porco Rosso and the Air Pirates" or "Porco Rosso in Mussolini's Italy", just "Porco Rosso". I think there is only one other Miyazaki film named solely for an individual and that film isn't about that individual so much as her interactions with a whole alien world.
The climax of Porco Rosso is all the more enjoyable because the hero comes out of a tortured past and an uncertain present to find what the closing titles suggest is a stable and happy future.
Maybe Orphic said it best by saying its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.
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| 07.09.2013, 05:54 PM |
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saviour2012
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.
taken into signature with a little moderation
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
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| 07.10.2013, 06:04 AM |
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Mush
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We might be drifting from Kaze Tachinu in this thread, although I'm okay with that... 
quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
The climactic and important event in Porco Rosso is the man finding himself, understanding himself, seeing his own weaknesses and becoming a better person because of that.
Hmm... It seems to me that Porco Rosso already understood himself well at the start of the film. What he didn't understand was anybody else, or, he thought he understood them too well.
He didn't believe Gina loved him, even when Curtis said it to his face... I suppose you could argue that he just didn't believe himself lovable, or just thought of himself as "forever alone", but it's a fine distinction. After the war Porco had come to dislike humankind, and for good enough reason. But later on he tells Fio that she changed his mind about all of humanity being garbage.
With no respect for humanity, Porco had settled for life alone as a pig who fights for money and believes in nothing. ("Believe... the word sounds different coming from you", he told Fio). But over the course of the film he comes find value in other people, and fights to protect them.
That's what I drew from it... Also, I think Porco is clearly a self-portrait of the director. Miyazaki has a strong misanthropic streak like Porco; did you see the interview shortly after the tsunami where they were standing on the ruins of a destroyed town, and Miyazaki said something like "at the heart of it, this was an ugly society that was built here, and it might be better the way it is now. If people want to rebuild on this land, they should think deeply about the kind of place they want to make before making it, to make sure it's even worth building". Harsh words which may or may not have been true, but certainly not your standard "we'll build it back, better than ever!" soundbite.
I saw it written on this forum that Porco is the only film that Miyazaki directed at adults (I forget who wrote that). If so, I think that children are Miyazaki's Fio, the ones who remind him from time to time that not all of humanity is worth throwing away, and that he should work for their sake, rather than just for money.
That's my Porco Rosso analysis 
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Post last edited by Mush on 07.10.2013, 10:54 AM.
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| 07.10.2013, 10:53 AM |
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saviour2012
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quote:
Originally posted by Mush
We might be drifting from Kaze Tachinu in this thread, although I'm okay with that...
quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
The climactic and important event in Porco Rosso is the man finding himself, understanding himself, seeing his own weaknesses and becoming a better person because of that.
Hmm... It seems to me that Porco Rosso already understood himself well at the start of the film. What he didn't understand was anybody else, or, he thought he understood them too well.
He didn't believe Gina loved him, even when Curtis said it to his face... I suppose you could argue that he just didn't believe himself lovable, or just thought of himself as "forever alone", but it's a fine distinction. After the war Porco had come to dislike humankind, and for good enough reason. But later on he tells Fio that she changed his mind about all of humanity being garbage.
With no respect for humanity, Porco had settled for life alone as a pig who fights for money and believes in nothing. ("Believe... the word sounds different coming from you", he told Fio). But over the course of the film he comes find value in other people, and fights to protect them.
That's what I drew from it... Also, I think Porco is clearly a self-portrait of the director. Miyazaki has a strong misanthropic streak like Porco; did you see the interview shortly after the tsunami where they were standing on the ruins of a destroyed town, and Miyazaki said something like "at the heart of it, this was an ugly society that was built here, and it might be better the way it is now. If people want to rebuild on this land, they should think deeply about the kind of place they want to make before making it, to make sure it's even worth building". Harsh words which may or may not have been true, but certainly not your standard "we'll build it back, better than ever!" soundbite.
I saw it written on this forum that Porco is the only film that Miyazaki directed at adults (I forget who wrote that). If so, I think that children are Miyazaki's Fio, the ones who remind him from time to time that not all of humanity is worth throwing away, and that he should work for their sake, rather than just for money.
That's my Porco Rosso analysis
great post
But 
this is a reason why i want to be a moderator. i could have shifted all these porco post to another one. i do not know if there is something like that here. but nothing to do 
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
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| 07.10.2013, 01:10 PM |
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San Toelle Ul Shichikokuyama-g
Ohmu
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Oi, don't bring that up again, remember how chaotic it turned last time.
If anyone can translate some of this , we non-japanese speakers would be much obliged.
I've seen reviews that make it out to be a really bad movie...
Post last edited by San Toelle Ul Shichikokuyama-g on 07.10.2013, 02:20 PM.
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| 07.10.2013, 02:19 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
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Hideako Anno is looking remarkably perky. Life must be being good to him at last.
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| 07.10.2013, 05:09 PM |
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